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- Seraphim#1666
The Kin.
For those who would be concerned that this alternative would turn into a group with its own identity that people who don't seem to have a home anywhere also won't feel at home here:
I don't see it as a separate usergroup with its own private forum. I see it as a way for someone who has made a good faith effort to find a home to have a path to SM they normally wouldn't without shoehorning themselves into a group where they don't feel at home. So in a way they would be sacrificing having a specific usergroup forum, but will be gaining the normal Parlour/SM/Apartments forum combo that all SMs get upon raising. It would be the same level as Aes Sedai/Gaidin without anything extra, just unaffiliated.
For raising purposes, I would see there being a minimum good faith effort timeline of active guesting before the JM applies to the unaffiliated path. This application I could see going to the MoAS, then to the Hall to consider the case as in a normal raising, but instead of looking for how well they fit into their groups, how much they've tried to find a home in the various groups can be analyzed. I'd say this unaffiliated path can only be considered for someone if they have tried to guest everywhere.
I'll also say I have 0 intention of ever using this for myself I just like pondering things like this, and would rather there be an option for people who have tried hard but haven't been able to find a home. They should have the opportunity to be a senior member without having to feel like they are settling for a group which isn't fair for the person or the group.
If you cannot find your home in any of the like ten member groups we have on the site then what makes anyone think it’s gonna be any better by magically forming another group?
Ive never really seen this asked before but that’s my concern. It sounds like it may be more about the individual than it ever is about a group.... which is kind of against the point
Yeah I agree, but that's why this wouldn't be its own new group just allowing someone to be an unaffiliated SMIf you cannot find your home in any of the like ten member groups we have on the site then what makes anyone think it’s gonna be any better by magically forming another group?
A group's reaction would probably depend on which group it is. If you're open and honest about how you feel, I'm guessing there are still some Ajahs/Companies who would accept you and raise you anyway. That may not be an ideal solution, but it's one that's currently available.It feels wrong to settle for a group and feign it feels like home. That seems unfair to the group in my head, but perhaps I am overthinking it.
A group's reaction would probably depend on which group it is. If you're open and honest about how you feel, I'm guessing there are still some Ajahs/Companies who would accept you and raise you anyway. That may not be an ideal solution, but it's one that's currently available.
I kind of look at long term resident citizens as senior members. I think that is the actual third path.
I definitely think that some shuffling around to the idea of Resident Citizens eventually gaining access to the SM forums could work - perhaps making that an official third path and then also having a way for people who don't want to do the raising process still have a bit of recognition. I'm not sold on the idea of just staying Citizen long enough to get SM forum access, but it's definitely something to think about for a future admin meeting.
So in a way they would be sacrificing having a specific usergroup forum, but will be gaining the normal Parlour/SM/Apartments forum combo that all SMs get upon raising. It would be the same level as Aes Sedai/Gaidin without anything extra, just unaffiliated.
For raising purposes, I would see there being a minimum good faith effort timeline of active guesting before the JM applies to the unaffiliated path. This application I could see going to the MoAS, then to the Hall to consider the case as in a normal raising, but instead of looking for how well they fit into their groups, how much they've tried to find a home in the various groups can be analyzed. I'd say this unaffiliated path can only be considered for someone if they have tried to guest everywhere.
But I do miss being a Senior Member. I thought I could roll on and nothing would change, that I could still partake the same in the overall forum community much the same as a junior member.... but its now something like 7 years later and I've still not been able to fit back in. It's an outsider feeling. Not sure how to shake it!
For me, I'm not in search of new group forums to be created, more like a way to still attain leveling up like everyone else even when cannot become attached to a group.
If you cannot find your home in any of the like ten member groups we have on the site then what makes anyone think it’s gonna be any better by magically forming another group?
I've done the guesting circle a few times now over the past however many years, but haven't felt the click of belonging. It feels wrong to settle for a group and feign it feels like home. That seems unfair to the group in my head, but perhaps I am overthinking it.
I currently feel like a solution to my problem of not belonging is just to not belong anywhere. To have a path to re-achieve SM status, but not be part of a group. Maybe it is backwards logic. And I think it's fair for some to stand or vote against it.
Perhaps it is about the individuals. In my case, the fact that I'm high-functioning autistic yet pass to most people as seeming neurotypical presents a challenge in my life where I struggle to achieve and maintain deep interpersonal relationships despite appearing capable of it.
I wasn't really seeing it as a Citizen version of SM, to be used as a matter of course, just a last ditch effort for someone who had tried for years to find a home and couldn't to still be SM. Some roles on the site require SM hood to hold though as of late this has gotten a bit lax (which is good) but let's say if she wanted to apply for Mayor she'd have to go back to citizen. Resident citizens also don't have access to the SM forum, male/ female SM forums, and aren't eligible for the SM merit. They also can't be mentors and can't see any forums in the tower. Not big deals to everyone but to some they are.Resident Citizens already can access the Apartments. In fact, its official description is "Area where Resident Citizens and Senior Members may mingle." If Senior Members are already not interested in mingling with Resident Citizens, I'm not sure what will change by giving those Citizens access to other forums.
But, for the sake of argument, I could see citizen names being shuffled around: Resident Citizen could be those who had gone through some sort of Guesting process and then decided to stay a member but not aspire anywhere. Meanwhile, something like Longtime Citizen or whatever could be people who had merely been around for a long time and didn't try to join the Tower.
The Citizen-SM path could have the same site-contribution requirement as JMs do, and a requirement to have Guested with each group for a certain duration. However, instead of looking at how active they are in their aspired group, look at how active they are in General forums, for example. If they seem to be fitting in with the wider community in the same way Aspirants fit in with their chosen group, they could be put up for raising.
This is true. While it is a bonus, a better way to look at guesting is not who do I fit in with but what about this group fits who I am. I think everyone who has guested has heard this but I think it's good for @Leese Sulan to keep in mind: when looking at groups, don't look so much at who is in the group because through LOA, retirement, demoting etc that can change. Instead look at what the group is all about and if you could see yourself belonging there even if you are the only one there.There is no requirement to have "deep interpersonal relationships" in order to feel at home somewhere
I partially disagree with this. It takes years for a group's membership to change. Although membership shouldn't be the only thing you look at, and you do need to fit into a group's mission, it's also okay to consider the current membership as well. I did, and it affected my initial guesting in both directions - groups I was pulled to because of the members, and groups I leaned away from.I think everyone who has guested has heard this but I think it's good for Leese Sulan to keep in mind: when looking at groups, don't look so much at who is in the group because through LOA, retirement, demoting etc that can change. Instead look at what the group is all about and if you could see yourself belonging there even if you are the only one there.
I wasn't really seeing it as a Citizen version of SM, to be used as a matter of course, just a last ditch effort for someone who had tried for years to find a home and couldn't to still be SM. Some roles on the site require SM hood to hold though as of late this has gotten a bit lax (which is good) but let's say if she wanted to apply for Mayor she'd have to go back to citizen. Resident citizens also don't have access to the SM forum, male/ female SM forums, and aren't eligible for the SM merit. They also can't be mentors and can't see any forums in the tower. Not big deals to everyone but to some they are.
The last paragraph quoted I do really agree with though. Since there isn't a group to ask recommendations of, they would have to come from people in the site at large. Maybe people in every group since they would have had to guest in every group extensively.
I do miss the conversations that were had amongst other SM's