S2E8 "What Was Meant To Be" -- w/ Book Spoilers

[Delara Morellin]

One thing I can say for the show is that they're making it really easy to sympathize with some of these Forsaken and Darkfriends.

Yes! Them being so much more human and relatable makes the threat of turning to The Dark all that more real.

 

[Tobyas Cuendrelle]

One thing I can say for the show is that they're making it really easy to sympathize with some of these Forsaken and Darkfriends.

yes! it makes the show much more watchable. in the books sometimes im just wincing and in way too much despair at the tragedies that are happening

spent plenty of real world time around religious wackos (in and out of my family) so they at least hold a hint of familiarity to me.

oh lol that's what makes me hate the whitecloaks so much, i can barely watch

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

One thing that Rafe Judkins has generally made clear I think is that they are telling the same overall story all 14 books adapted into about 8 seasons.

Now people expecting a very direct page-to-screen adaptation, with identical scenes and dialogue and structure, will be disappointed, unfortunately. If you're happy to see a new interpretation of the series, moving things around and changing scenes, to tell the same overall story, you will need a bit of an open mind and trust in Rafe and his team that the changes you see will make sense in the future.

That means it's extremely unlikely that some of the biggest moments would be removed.

(Spoiler warning for at least book 5)


So Lanfear will not really get redemption and Moraine will die in (likely Season 4). Moiraine's death is such a turning point in the books and a shock - it's a peak-level television. So I find it practically impossible that it will not happen. That would be like in the adaptation of Harry Potter not killing Dumbledore or adaption of Lord of the Rings not killing Gandalf or the adaptation of Game of Thrones not killing Ned Stark or Star Wars not killing Obi-Wan

But of course who knows? We will find out in 10 years or so.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

Moraine will die in (likely Season 4). Moiraine's death is such a turning point in the books and a shock - it's a peak-level television. So I find it practically impossible that it will not happen.

I try my best to trust in Rafe, but this is one that worries me. He is such a Moiraine Stan and made her the center of the show that I wonder if they'll find a different way to do things.

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

I try my best to trust in Rafe, but this is one that worries me. He is such a Moiraine Stan and made her the center of the show that I wonder if they'll find a different way to do things.

It makes sense for Rafe to initially highlight Moiraine and Rosamund Pike, portrayed by a famous and experienced actress. This helps draw viewers in and establishes a strong foundation for the show.

However, the younger characters (and the younger actors) will grow and come into focus as they undergo character development and take on more central roles.

I think we can see this shift in the finale, where Moiraine assumes a supporting role, and the core group of six characters takes center stage.

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

I enjoyed the episode; they are really focusing on it being an ensemble team. I will just need to accept that.

The final fight was a really team victory: Egwene and Perrin on defense, Elayne healing, Mat with the Heros of the Horn, Nynaeve offering moral support (ha!), and Rand on the attack. Moiraine assisted from afar (from behind the scenes).

The final scenes established that we have our six core main characters front and center. I liked that.

Btw if we go by the books this may also be one of the last times we see them all together, as they are going to separate next season.
The books couldn't manage to bring them all back together in the end. Will the show do so?

This also set up next season's storylines (adaptation of The Shadow Rising mainly)

1. Rand's Quest for a Teacher: Logain's attempt to teach Rand was a disaster, emphasizing how crucial it is for Rand to get proper training. He's on his knees and gets shielded multiple times, which shows he's got a long way to go. This setups the The Shadow Rising arc with Asmodean/Lanfear/Rand's game
2. Aiel and Car'a'carn: The Aiel's mention of the Car'a'carn really teases the deeper dive we'll get into Aiel culture next season
3. Lan and Rand’s Sword Training: Lan's brief comment about the sword leaves us excited for the likely master-apprentice relationship forming between him and Rand. Rafe basically confirmed Lan/Rand training is coming
4. Dain Bornhald/Perrin Arc: The show has really amped up the tension here by having Perrin kill Bornhald’s father.
5. Mat's Struggle: Mat being mishandled by Aes Sedai and Forsaken (channelers) builds up his desperation to be free of the One Power, which will play into what he will ask the Finn. The spear-like weapon he uses further foreshadows what he will get out of the Finn.
6. Nyneave's block and fear of channeling: This sets her on a path (from rock bottom) to overcome her block (at least partially) and gain the confidence to eventually take on Moghedien.

We still have not even had a hint that Egwene can be a dreamer. Or Perrin for that matter. But considering how much TAR is used this season , it will happen for certain.

 

[Megana Vallentin]

I think we can see this shift in the finale, where Moiraine assumes a supporting role, and the core group of six characters takes center stage.

I agree with this, and it makes a lot of sense with Moiraine as the experienced teacher/leader that eventually she is removed somehow and the new heroes have to stand on their own.

 

[Thaddius al'Guy]

I also agree, but Meg beat me to the punch on that opinion.

 

[Syera Faelron]

My first reaction was EPIC!, although yes more fight with Turak and Ishy. Even if the former was a few swishy forms and then fook this i will channel the epic out of you all.

More tense with Ishy would be good, more prowling from him and unsureness, a in the moment confidence.

 

[Merena Orithana]

righttt, where's my televised fight projected across the world on live magic tv? 😂

Uhh... the magic only starts making sense after book 3, unfortunately. I'm glad that Rafe was able to smooth most of the weirdness over. Though, sad about the loss of the Nym in S1. Maybe we might get some flashbacks with them

Spoiler: spoiler for bk 4?

when we go to Rhuidean?

Yes! Them being so much more human and relatable makes the threat of turning to The Dark all that more real.

I think this is consistent with how current fantasy books are being written - its not just all these characters against the bad guys, its characters who believe xyz against characters who believe abc.
I don't think RJ gave his Forsaken short shrift, but I think if he had written the books now, he probably would have added a bit more depth to them.

That means it's extremely unlikely that some of the biggest moments would be removed.

(Spoiler warning for at least book 5)


So Lanfear will not really get redemption and Moraine will die in (likely Season 4).

Uhm...

(spoiler warning for ToM)

Spoiler

Moiraine is there at the Last Battle. But now that we know (or at least suspect) that the Eelfinn and Aelfinn are off the table, how will the whole Moiraine / Cadsuane transition happen? Maybe Moiraine will go to Shara??

I'm just really hoping we will get there!! Please please please let there be Seasons 4 - 8!! I'm kinda worried we might not.

I think we can see this shift in the finale, where Moiraine assumes a supporting role, and the core group of six characters takes center stage.

Yes - I'm hoping they keep that piece. And also have Cadsuane keep her supporting role - I'm not sure how much time they will have to build her character out, as they took so long building Moiraine's character out?

Or will they merge her with Verin?

 

[Vealdan Annalin]

Spoiler

But now that we know (or at least suspect) that the Eelfinn and Aelfinn are off the table

Spoiler

I am fairly certain the Finn are in. They are big part of Mat's story. Also I found Rafe Judkins evasive answer to the question as semi-confirmation.

 

[Merena Orithana]

oooOOOoohhh - i didnt realize he was being evasive about that?

I'm not sure why they would change how Mat got his ashanderei and 'past memories', if the Finn are in?

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I'm not sure why they would change how Mat got his ashanderei and 'past memories', if the Finn are in?

My running theory (and I can't remember where I mentioned this before but I did... somewhere ) is that the Finn are going to take a bit of extra CGI costs just to convey how weird they and their world are, so I think they're going to condense this into two encounters with the Finn for the entire series. One for Mat on his own (probably Rhuidian?) and then later in the series, one for Moiraine. It makes more sense than having two encounters for Mat alone.

 

[Merena Orithana]

I must have missed this theory, but I like it!

 

[Iamara Tysana]

My running theory (and I can't remember where I mentioned this before but I did... somewhere ) is that the Finn are going to take a bit of extra CGI costs just to convey how weird they and their world are, so I think they're going to condense this into two encounters with the Finn for the entire series. One for Mat on his own (probably Rhuidian?) and then later in the series, one for Moiraine. It makes more sense than having two encounters for Mat alone.

Big fan of this theory! I wonder if the show will see Mat encounter the Aelfinn, Eelfinn, or both if there is only one visit. I seem to recall the Aelfinn answers directing him to Rhuidean and that he would marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons were pretty important to his path in the series, but the Eelfinn's gifts were impactful as well. I'm very curious what changes might end up being made if Mat's two visits were condensed into one.

 

[Ruslan Rynar]

Spoiler: Question

Did Moraine break the Three Oaths when she wove fire at the Seanchan ships? While she was "in danger" due to the soldiers, she wasn't in danger from those on the ships. Thoughts?

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

I think she got around it by attacking the ships themselves and not the people aboard the ships. Or she could have convinced herself that anyone shielding Rand had to be a darkfriend.

 

[Boreas Silverfir]

@Ruslan Rynar book lore states that many of the Seanchan naval vessels will have channelers on them.

I think she got around it by attacking the ships themselves and not the people aboard the ships. Or she could have convinced herself that anyone shielding Rand had to be a darkfriend.

And this, what is "dangerous" is open to interpretation. Danger to the world would be danger to her. Danger of being captured by enemy channelers. Danger for a Warder from the soldiers on those ships. As Satara said, ships can be seen as objects and as such are not covered by the Oaths. As Verij said at one point in season 2, Oaths can have loopholes

 

[Ruslan Rynar]

I think she got around it by attacking the ships themselves and not the people aboard the ships. Or she could have convinced herself that anyone shielding Rand had to be a darkfriend.

That's probably true. It was a thought that popped into my head in the shower today.

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

Danger to the world would be danger to her.

This is the one that was nagging at the back of my brain but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Moiraine is SO dedicated to Rand (which to her, sometimes means controlling him, but I digress). Rand has to save the world. No Rand, no world. That means a threat to her, her Warder, her fellow Aes Sedai, everything. So if protecting Rand means using the power as a weapon, I think she could (and probably already has) convinced herself that defending him IS the last defense of her life.