What's up with Faile? - The Shadow Rising spoilers

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I try to give every character a chance and there aren't any in particular that I loath completely until Faile showed up and has irked me more and more with every scene she's in. I hate the way she treats Perrin and speaks to him and her entire attitude. Does she change at all as the books go along? At this point I find her to be an insufferable character and full of herself
 

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I found that she grew on me (and grew in general, IMO) over time. She is obnoxious and incredibly immature at first, and her behavior toward Perrin is terrible. To my perception (and YMMV here), a lot of this seems to arise from her own insecurities about herself and how she fits into the world. She's not confident, she's not mature, she's not knowledgeable, and she's afraid, and I think deep down, she knows that, but she won't admit it to herself. It comes out as this childish, petulant, and ridiculous behavior, but I find that events mellow her and mature her, even by the end of TSR. We don't really see much of her again until LoC, and I feel she's grown again at that point when we check in again.

Time'll tell if my perception changes (it's been over 20 years since I read LoC, and I just started in on it again this week), but just as Egwene starts out punky and immature and...well...straight-up silly at times early on, especially in TEotW, and just as Nynaeve tries to cover her fear with her anger, I think we see real, if unpleasant, behaviors with Faile. And that makes watching her mature and grow more satisfying to me. That's my take, FWIW. :)
 

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I am going to try to answer this without spoilers, so very vaguely, haha! The things that help me with Faile are remembering that she, like most of the main characters in these books, is VERY young (I say as I look down from the venerable height of my 37 years). She also comes from a culture that is, uh, different than many others, especially in interactions between men and women. She does wrestle with this as the series goes on, to her credit. That said, she does really annoy a lot of people still, so you are not the only one to think these thoughts!
 

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I found her incredibly annoying on my first read, but as I grew older, though she is still annoying, immature and narrow minded, and 90% of her problems could be solved by talking to Perrin instead of expecting him to be a mindreader (which she sort of even acknolwedges in tSR), I still don't find her as bad as Elayne, or Egwene until around book 12-13 (and then in the final book, she is back to being annoying)
 
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I found that she grew on me (and grew in general, IMO) over time. She is obnoxious and incredibly immature at first, and her behavior toward Perrin is terrible. To my perception (and YMMV here), a lot of this seems to arise from her own insecurities about herself and how she fits into the world. She's not confident, she's not mature, she's not knowledgeable, and she's afraid, and I think deep down, she knows that, but she won't admit it to herself. It comes out as this childish, petulant, and ridiculous behavior, but I find that events mellow her and mature her, even by the end of TSR. We don't really see much of her again until LoC, and I feel she's grown again at that point when we check in again.

Time'll tell if my perception changes (it's been over 20 years since I read LoC, and I just started in on it again this week), but just as Egwene starts out punky and immature and...well...straight-up silly at times early on, especially in TEotW, and just as Nynaeve tries to cover her fear with her anger, I think we see real, if unpleasant, behaviors with Faile. And that makes watching her mature and grow more satisfying to me. That's my take, FWIW. :)
That's what I was hoping would eventually happen regarding her that she matures and grows as the story goes along. Nynaeve grated on me at first but she's grown on me now that I've gotten this far in and I can say if I'd read these books when I was younger she would have been a character I identified with quite a bit.


I am going to try to answer this without spoilers, so very vaguely, haha! The things that help me with Faile are remembering that she, like most of the main characters in these books, is VERY young (I say as I look down from the venerable height of my 37 years). She also comes from a culture that is, uh, different than many others, especially in interactions between men and women. She does wrestle with this as the series goes on, to her credit. That said, she does really annoy a lot of people still, so you are not the only one to think these thoughts!

I did take that into consideration with how much she annoys me and if it's just me being a grumpy adult about her immature behavior. You're right she is young like the others and another I just smack my forehead when she does something dumb like that fight with Berelain
 
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I found her incredibly annoying on my first read, but as I grew older, though she is still annoying, immature and narrow minded, and 90% of her problems could be solved by talking to Perrin instead of expecting him to be a mindreader (which she sort of even acknolwedges in tSR), I still don't find her as bad as Elayne, or Egwene until around book 12-13 (and then in the final book, she is back to being annoying)

That's what I'm starting to get out of things is she needs to let Perrin just talk instead of expecting him to magically know what she wants or is thinking on top of taking every opportunity to debase him. I don't find Egwene and Elayne to be nearly as annoying as Faile (though they definitely have their irritating moments) so at this point I'll say the jury is still out regarding her and I'll just have to see if my opinion changes as I get further in the books
 
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I agree with the sentiment that she grows on you. Though, I always loved Faile, just was sometimes annoyed with her.

The only the character that has never annoyed me was Moiraine :look:
 
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I agree with the sentiment that she grows on you. Though, I always loved Faile, just was sometimes annoyed with her.

The only the character that has never annoyed me was Moiraine :look:
Faile has only been around a short time still so I still want to give her a chance. Nynaeve grew on me after her introduction and when I'd gotten to know her better as a character.

Moiraine has also never annoyed me :look:
 

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Part of why she's acting the way she's acting is that she's buddies with Bain and Chiad. And they're telling her all about how to handle men as Maidens of the Spear. In fact, she gives Perrin a bridal wreath.

So part of it, I think, is Jordan trying to foreshadow the Aiel and the relationship with Perrin and Faile, while the other part is Perrin trying to figure out how the heck he is supposed to lead the Two Rivers AND manage Faile, but she's mainly there as an advisor at this point.

Tl,Dr, it's complicated......
 
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Part of why she's acting the way she's acting is that she's buddies with Bain and Chiad. And they're telling her all about how to handle men as Maidens of the Spear. In fact, she gives Perrin a bridal wreath.

So part of it, I think, is Jordan trying to foreshadow the Aiel and the relationship with Perrin and Faile, while the other part is Perrin trying to figure out how the heck he is supposed to lead the Two Rivers AND manage Faile, but she's mainly there as an advisor at this point.

Tl,Dr, it's complicated......
I'm not quite there yet but have seen how buddy buddy she is with Bain and Chiad when they entered the waygate and it hasn't yet circled back around them yet. Currently I'm right after Rand has made his plans known and just used the portal stone to get everyone to Rhuidean using the angreal regardless of everyone's opinions on that, lol
 

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I couldn't stand the Faile chapters when I first read the books when I was younger. And Faile was a character that I never really understood. Even the sections that are from her PoV later on baffle me in regards to her motivations.

I will say that much of her behavior comes from the culture that she grew up with combined with her being absolutely terrified and not knowing what she's actually doing. And like others have said above, she does grow up a bit later on. I just... still do not understand why she expects Perrin to read her mind all the time. :laugh:
 

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Moraine’s obsession with secrets, even when it endangered people annoyed me
 

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I understood her motivations, though. Even when annoying, Moiraine's entire life was devoted to finding the Dragon Reborn, letting him fulfill some prophecies, and doing her best to keep him alive and sane until the Last Battle. So when things endanger that, I think it scared her. Not that she'd admit it, of course. And keeping those secrets meant that she knew more, might prepare for more, and make better decisions than those around her.

Also, Cairhien. :laugh:
 
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I couldn't stand the Faile chapters when I first read the books when I was younger. And Faile was a character that I never really understood. Even the sections that are from her PoV later on baffle me in regards to her motivations.

I will say that much of her behavior comes from the culture that she grew up with combined with her being absolutely terrified and not knowing what she's actually doing. And like others have said above, she does grow up a bit later on. I just... still do not understand why she expects Perrin to read her mind all the time. :laugh:
There is something I don't understand regarding her and Perrin and why he felt the compulsion to save her after he'd been trying resist and stay away from her in The Dragon Reborn. Then suddenly in The Shadow Rising they're together? Is this because we're just supposed to accept events that happen 'off screen' between the books or Perrin accepted her as being part of the pattern based on what Min saw? It felt like something was missing. She just confuses me as much as she's annoyed me since she joined the group but I'll see how my opinion and thoughts change as I keep reading.

Based on how far I've read and Moiraine's handling of things I agree with you on her motivations. This is no small or easy task she's set for herself and there's only so much she can do to help Rand if he chooses to be difficult and makes a point to try and avoid her even though she's one of the best people who can help and guide him. Just like everyone else she didn't expect the pattern to weave as it has with Rand but also Mat and Perrin being Ta'veren along with everyone else that's become involved in this journey. His decisions influence everything so I'm sure her heart jumps into her throat every time he makes some wild decision or refuses to even try cooperating and become cagey
 

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There is something I don't understand regarding her and Perrin and why he felt the compulsion to save her after he'd been trying resist and stay away from her in The Dragon Reborn. Then suddenly in The Shadow Rising they're together? Is this because we're just supposed to accept events that happen 'off screen' between the books or Perrin accepted her as being part of the pattern based on what Min saw? It felt like something was missing. She just confuses me as much as she's annoyed me since she joined the group but I'll see how my opinion and thoughts change as I keep reading.

I think part of this is just Robert Jordan being really bad at writing romantic interactions and relationships. :laugh:

But I also think that the compulsion that Perrin feels with Faile is part of him being ta'veren. The pattern is putting them together for a purpose and isn't taking any of Perrin's resistance for an answer.
 
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I think part of this is just Robert Jordan being really bad at writing romantic interactions and relationships. :laugh:

But I also think that the compulsion that Perrin feels with Faile is part of him being ta'veren. The pattern is putting them together for a purpose and isn't taking any of Perrin's resistance for an answer.
That's what I was wondering too since I heard he handled writing romantic relationships in odd ways when I first started reading the books.

That makes sense. It just felt oddly paced that he saw her in trouble and that she was about to die so jumped in to save her. I thought it might also be some sense of guilt on his part too for not being so gracious with her
 
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There’s a lot that can be explained because of ta’veren. When something is a little too easy, or things fall into place suddenly, or a case falls and doesn’t break: ta’veren.
 
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There’s a lot that can be explained because of ta’veren. When something is a little too easy, or things fall into place suddenly, or a case falls and doesn’t break: ta’veren.
I read someone once point out that RJ's creation of ta'veren is pretty genius because it avoids any plot holes having to be explained
 
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I read someone once point out that RJ's creation of ta'veren is pretty genius because it avoids any plot holes having to be explained
I thought it was great and he gets better at portraying it in later books. Some people might consider it weak, but it all makes sense, which is what I care about.
 

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It was a great idea on RJ's part. Like you said, Blythe, it closes up the plot holes and it's not only for that. It ties in the entire lore of that universe. It's about destiny and fate and coincidence and I absolutely love that concept from the books.

Though I do think that guilt probably played a part in Perrin saving Faile. :laugh:
 
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