The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

Toral Delvar

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Catch up on the final of last weeks
Chapter 5
Just Mat planning, but I still found it interesting
The world is drying up - a continuation of the "weather" sub plot from the very first chapter of the Eye of the World
Talmanes has shaved his head like a soldier and isn't wearing stripes to indicate his noble rank - a few other nobles are doing similar
Mat grew up watching his father trade horseflesh. Who with? Does the Two Rivers breed particularly good horses?
Mat talks to Betsy and she gets the better, Talmanes hums "a frog on the ice" - I really like Talmanes
Mat again says his final memory is the final battle of Artur Hawkwing's rise - I wonder why?
The band is 6000 strong and more want to join every day. Mat has divided it into equal sized squadrons, which seem about 500 each
Mat has sent soap to the refugee camps, but most don't want it - he really is generous and considerate, as much as he wants to deny it
Mat thinks that it was always Rand who had a way with women - him and Perrin
We meet Olver, who is ugly enough to be Gaidal Cain, but much too old
I was amused by "you tell her I said you can have one, she can't stop you" to Olver about a batch
A sea folk delegation arrives - obviously, they are seeking Rand
Nalesean's troops contain Defenders of the Stone - just what is the make up of the Band. Are they still Defenders?
Mention of Comadrin - Mat suspects no copies of his book exist, though Roedran somehow has a couple
Chapter 6
Graendal was the one who accepted Sammael when he pledged to the Shadow
Graendal has taken the Sh'boan and the person who was tobe Sh'botay. I don't t think we ever learn what effect that had on Shara
She is in a palace, well known across Arad Doman, within sight of the Mountains of Mist, posing as an old and feeble noble
Semirhage missed the last gathering - Is she on the boat from Seandar? Can people travel to/from a moving boat?
Sammael thinks events to the south had Demandred's mark all over - which events are these? The landing of the Seanchan? If so, Sammael is wrong
Sammale asks fo the Ayaad "do they bind themselves like criminals" - he is referring to aes Sedai/ Graendal feigns confusion on this
We learn Mesaana is in the White Tower
Semirhage is torturing Cabriana - is this why she missed the meeting?
Semirhage is a sadist. She thinks on how if she had allowed them to bind her, she would have seen the end of her life approaching - apparently the binding shortens lives
Semrihage has a charge - a willful and obdurate girl. Tuon of course, but we couldn't suspect this until we meet her
No one - not the forsaken or the Myrddraal themselves know how they dissapear into shadows
Semirhage didn't kill Asmodean, and Mesaana almost certainly didn't - there doesn't seem much point in her faking not being sure if she did it
 

Toral Delvar

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Chapter 7
Animal- green striped song sparrow - is this a bird from our world?
Elayne brushes her hair 100 times. I've heard of this in other contexts, but it seems excessive to me
Elayne is getting better at copying ter'angreal, but still doesn't understand how they work
Elayne and Nynaeve meet Sheriam's council in Tel'aran'rhiod. They are stil dreaming themselves into their houses and walking out, rather than in the street
The copies of the dream ter'angreal that require chanelling work just as well as the originals
The councilhave chosen an Amyrlin and are trying to persuade the Hall, though they worry the person might be too easily guided by others.
They go to Elaida's study. It no longer has chairs for other women - seems Elaida's private council is no longer advising her
Carlinya gets caught in a nightmare, as do Movrin and Beonin and Sheriam when they accept it as real and try to fight it.
Elayne persuades Siuan go join them so they can dispel it. Siuan comments on how couragous she is, nbut as usual, Elaynr confuses fear with cowardice.
Before returning to Salidar, she goes to Caemlyn and is not happy to see a Dragon throne. Fro some reason, Demandred was there.
Chapter 8
Nynaeve thinks she saw Rand in Tar Valon - was it him or Luc?
The Aes Sedai are showing local nobles Logain and claiming the Reds set him up. Not sure this is wise
We see 18 novices. This includes Nicola. Most of them are new, only 18 were taken from the Tower (I think this waa about half). They are testing older women now, though not much older than Nynaeve
They are trying to learn a weave that can detect a man's channeling. Moghedien might make things difficult, but I don't think she would lie to them, so the weave does work
Tarna arrives, as an emmisary from the Tower. Why was she chosen? IF Elaida had sense, she'd have chosen a gray with proven experience, not a red who has been Aes Sedai only a decade or two
Chapter 9
We meet Balwer and Olmnera. Omerna is an idiot, and Balwer seems totally amoral. Nial thinks he doesn't even believe in Darkfriends, so doesn't work for the Whitecloaks because of their mission.
Despite everything, Nial is dismissive of the Aiel
Balwer's agents convinced Tedosian and Estanda to join Darlin
News of Logain had reached Balwer's agents, but this is the first Nial had heard of it
Balwer and Nial decide to start rumours that the Black Ajah took control of the Tower - I don't think this goes anywhere
Morgase talks to some nobles. She doesn't like Marande, but keeps her because she does give information
She sees people who have abandoned their homes and jobs because they say Rand has severed all times. For some reason, she thinks if Rand has done this to Andor, he will pay
Chapter 10
What did happen to Pevin?
Rand has learned the trick of ignoring the heat - how did Taim learn it?
Strange occurrences have been happening because of Rand's ta'veren nature - the locals call them miracles. Both good and bad
Aes Sedai are coming into the city and taking rooms. Marrillin Gemalphin is probably also in the city
Cairhienin are shorter and paler than Andorans and Tairens are darker
He meets up with Verin and the Two Rivers girls. As is fairly typical, when they hear information they don't like (in this case that Rand is the Dragon Reborn), they dismiss it
Alanna bonds him and then tries to compel him, but is unable to (I think it can't be done on someone holding the Power. Could he be compelled if he wasn't? If so, would that hold after he seized saidin?
He bars both from the inner city and threatens to shield them and leave them like that
Chapter 11
We get a Verin point of view - what are the several decades of work (I think likely tracking down the Black Ajah)
Verin thinks there is little chance Rand had managed to discover Wards - again, an assumption that is not valid
Five of the girls had the spark inborn and two more they left because they were too young. Based on this, Nynaeve is probably not the only Wilder - 7 with the spark under 18, two (incuding the one who died) between 18 and 50. If it was spread, then there would be 1-2 each year
Rand has a fit of uncontrolable laughter thinking about shielding Verin and Alanna - this does not look good
He goes to the farm - four of the initial batch were able to learn. Then three more of the aditional 18. So there are 7
Taim has sent Haslin away, which angers Rand. Taim says he escaped without knowing the sword - Rand doesn't seem interested in how, just accepting thr rumour that some followers broke him free
Rand warns Taim off the Aes Sedai - For once, he really is full of arrogance
He agrees to let Taim go looking for men - Taim's plan here is solid, as is the part to send the one's who can't learn to be Rand's army. He thinks he can match the White Tower in a year
Chapter 12
Moghedien knows the trick of ignoring the heat but has not told the girls
She has taught them a method of getting past a ward against eavesdropping - Is there a ward to counter this?
Moghedien taunts Nynaeve because she knows Nynaeve is nervous if she doesn't have the bracelet on
We hear a little about another of Birgitte's lives
Pecans, goosemint
Nicola and Areina aren't pleased that Nynaeve and Elayne lied about being Aes Sedai. They haven't told anyone, but it is causing trouble
It seems that the view is still that the Hall does what Sheriam's council says - when does this change?
They are awaiting a "bidable child" - I don't think it should be a surprise when it is actually revealed what they want. We already know they are wanting to raise their own Amyrlin
Who is the woman watching Theodrin and Nynaeve at the end of the chapter? Why not just say who it was?
Chapter 13
Theodrin heals Nynaeve's bruise, but this is about her limit for Healing
Elayne has been trying to teach Aes Sedai to make Ter'angreal. Esceralde isn't strong enough and Varilin messed it up
Tarna is a wilder who had a block - she couldn't channel with her eyes open
Nynaeve and Elayne use "need" in Tel'aran'rhiod to find something that will convince the rebels not to surrender - it first takes them to Tar Valon - what would they have founf?
Their second attempt takes them to the Bowl of Winds in Ebou Dar. Nynaeve can't see how it would help convince them to support Rand - maybe it wouldn't
Chapter 14
Egwene was apparently in the part of the Tower where Nynaeve and Elayne went - did need take them to her? That actually makes sense
She gets sucked into Gawyn's dream. He is dreaming of saving her from Rand. He asks forgiveness for leaving her. I don't see the "him turning against her" as ever even being remotly plausible
He sees her as stunning beautiful, instead of merely very pretty
She tells him she loves him - really, this comes out of nowhere, other than a few thoght she has had where her affections have been going from Galad to him
A bubble of evil attacks Salidar - inanimate objects basically crashing into people
Anaiya tells Nynaeve they had expected and planned for an attack, but the random way they did it shows there really wasn't much of a plan
Nicola has a fortelling - It is obviously about Min, Aviendha and Elayne, and "he who is dead yet lives" happens, as does "Guardians balance the Servants", , but the rest? On a boat? Great battle done but world not done with battle? Future teetering on the edge of a blade - I don't think anything we see can be forced to fit that
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Asha'man means Guardian, like Aes Sedai means servants.

I think the "Great battle done but world not done with battle" part might refer to the Dragon's peace, how fragile it is and how forced...
 

Toral Delvar

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I got completely behind on this. I'll try and catch up this week
 

Toral Delvar

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Just one chapter to start with
Chapter 15
Egwene is not pleased about what happened with Gawyn in his dream, though at least she has the sense to know this is unreasonable
She has a dream of alternate possible futures - bonding Gawyn or having him turn from her. We keep seeing this, but we never actually see any indication there was any possibility of him even having split loyalties
She also dreams of Perrin with a hawk and Falcon - Faile and Berelain. Perrin running away from Aram, a woman beckoning Mat towards great danger - what is this? Rand being bonded by Elayne, Min and Aviendha, plus several that are just nightmares
Several of the Aiel, including Cowinde are refusing to put of gaishan white. The Wise Ones don't approve, but it seems fair to me
The Wise Ones are still visiting with the Shaido Wise Ones
Egwene is surprised to hear that Mora was nearing her 300th year and thinks surely even Aes Sedai don't live that long
Nynaeve loses her temper at Carlinya and Sheriam when they refuse to allow the girls to go to Ebou Dar
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Gawyn does have conflicting loyalties though... He actively supports Elaida's faction and leads an active rebellion against the Amyrlin just because he is dissatisfied with Siuan... And even when Egwene, the woman he loves, tells him that Rand didn't kill his mother, he refuses to believe it, because it doesn't fit with what he wants to be true.
He is a dangerous sort of person, just smart enough to be a leader, but not smart enough to listen to advice or fezz up to mistakes...
 

Toral Delvar

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But he is dissatisfied with Siuan because of what she did to Elayne and Egwene. I never got the impression there was ever any chance that he would support Elaida, or even his fellow Younglings over Egwene and Elayne. If Elayne had gone back to the Tower, then I could see some split loyalty, but he was raised for 20 years with the idea that his number one loyalty it to Elayne and the purpose of his life was to serve her. Then Egwene comes along and could muddy that a little, but her and Elayne were always in alignment.
 

Toral Delvar

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Chapter 16
Back to Rand - we seem to be switching about a lot here. I think this creates an illusion of pace
Not many palace staff remained, but Norry seems unconcerned with who is in charge as long as he gets to do his job
Abelle, Luan, Ellorian and Dyelin visit. They seem to have a lot more backbone that the ones who were with Gaebril
Dyelin tells Rand about Tigraine and he finally realises she was his mother. I also don't know why he keeps it a secret.
Did Gitara send Luc to the Blight? I have no idea what that could have been for
Sammael sends someone to offer a truce to Rand, who refuses, mnetioning events in the Age of Legends. The messenger dies
Rand thinks he eyes of queens painted at the palace are looking at him disaprovingly. This does not seem rational
Chapter 17
We see Havien Nurelle, Lord Lieutenant in the Winged guards - if he is around Rand's age, how did he get that position?
Lews Therin hums when he sees Berelain and stops when Rand tells him to
Maidens of the Sword - young Cairhienin nobles who want to immitate Aiel in their own way. Rhuarc doesn't approve, but Rand is right, their interpretations of honour are no les nonsensical than the Aiel ones.
Blue marble is a thing. Does that exist in our world?
A yellow fly is a creature that will lay its eggs in someone's skin and they can lose an arm or leg from it
There is fighting in Shara and the Sharan's are asking when will Rand break the world - how does this fit into Demandred taking control?
Mangin, who Rand likes comes to tell him he murdered a Cairhienin and Rand has to pass sentance. Rand is annoyed they made him do it instead of just following the law
Jalani and Dedric are together - I think this is the man who impressed her earlier
Rand goes to the Accademy, we see: A machine to make paper, a more advanced plough, an automatic harvester, a loom, Kin Tovere, some sort of flying machine, a very preliminary steam engine, and finally Herid Fel
Herid thinks the Dragon can't seal up the bore as well as the Creator made it. Rand asks if there is a reason to break the Seals
Egwene goes to see Rand, and his ta'verenness changes what she was going to say, so that she tells the truth rather than try to manipulate him
He asks where Elayne is and she almost tells him, taking hold of saidar to stop herself
Chapter 18
The Wise Ones have had dreams of Rand on a boat with three women they could not see - this seems to be Nicola's fortelling, of a man standing by his side with a dagger to his throat - likely Taim, cutting the Wetlands in two with a sword - probably his peace with the Seanchan
A dream that if the right hands pick up the Bowl of Winds, they will find a treasure almost as great as the bowl. The key to finding it is the one who is no longer. The Kin and Setalle?
Aviendha thinks she has toh to Rand and much more to Elayne, and that killing herself would meet one toh and killing Rand the other - I have never been able to understand how killing Rand could meet either.
 

Toral Delvar

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I always like it when there is some obscure reference I don't get, and it turns out not to be Wheel of Time Specific and is something in the real world!
 

Toral Delvar

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Chapter 20
Ogier arrive and Rand asks to be taken to them rather than having them brought to him
Loil has been out of the stedding more than 5 years - did we already know this?
apparently, Aiel think they don't need maps
The Ogier didn't know that humans don't even remember the cities they built
Stedding Tsofu is the closest stedding to any people and even that is a day away
Even ogier have sexist sayings about women
The ogier mark the locations of setting and the cities that had waygates on a map. Rand wants to go to the one in Shadar Logoth for some reason
Chapter 21
Because Rand is going quickly, Sulin uses Maiden handtalk to gaishan
Rand places a ward round the waygate. As he does, he feels a ressonance - the evil of Shadar Logoth to the evil of the taint
Liah goes missing - why? and how?
Rand thinks he has made deep marks inside himself that will bnever heal, one for each Maiden that died
Chapter 22
Mat and the people with him don't consider themselves Dragonsworn. On balance, I think they are right - they are loyal to Mat, not Rand
I like Mat's way of finding scouts Total of 47, 7 first, then 11 more and eventually, 3 were named, who were the only 3 to know about Vanin. We'll see plenty more of him, but nothing of them, even though they are exceptionally talented.
The find a band of dead Tinker with the message "kill the Dragon Reborn" - who killed them and why? And tell Rand what?
Aiel attack the camp - do we ever find out why? Mat finds out they came through a gateway, so they would have been Darkfriends
Olver gets offended when Mat offers him money. I suppose when you have nothing, you can stil have your pride, but this isn't an attitude I understand
Chapter 23
Graendal and Sammael - I kind of like the way they try to get the advantage over each other. He gets the better here merely by remaining calm when she talks about Rand as Lews Therin
What does i tmean for a jumara/worm to transform?
Sammael mentions he all but has his hands on a cache of angreal and other things - the one in Ebou Dar I think.
She says Asmodean and Lanfear are dead and that she believes Moghedien to be. The Asmodean information came from the Dark One/Demandred, but she must have had another source for Lanfear - This is the first clue that she did it.
Chapter 24
A chapter of Egwene's thoughts, but actually ok
Egwene thinks about how Rand had liked Mangin and she doesn't understand him any more - Don't know what her confusion is here, Mangin was a murdered and was executed. There wasn't really any way or reason for Rand to make an exception.
Egwene is thinking about fighting in Aiel terms, but at least she knows how ridiculous this is
I'm with Egwene here, I have no idea why the Aiel took to Berelain so much
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Liah goes missing - why? and how?
Rand thinks he has made deep marks inside himself that will bnever heal, one for each Maiden that died
Yeah, I wonder what happened to Liah as well. Why did she leave the group? I also wonder why none of the rest of the group disappear when they spend so long there looking for her.

I also wonder if this is the first time we hear of Rand's "list".
Aiel attack the camp - do we ever find out why? Mat finds out they came through a gateway, so they would have been Darkfriends
This is in the long list of seemingly random attacks we don't really get an explanation for. I think the attack on the Tinkers are also related.
 

Ilverin Matriam

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Hey did you guys finish Lord of Chaos? I believe it's time for Crown of Swords :look:
 

Toral Delvar

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I just got so fat behind!
 

Aduiavas Ida

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I'm only two thirds in, I think.
Egwene just became Amyrlin. One of my favourite quotes: "She had been prepared for everything, but her list of "everything" had never included this!"
 

Ilverin Matriam

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:rofl

Ok, do you want to delay the Crown of Swords then?
I am officially still on Fires of Heaven, but unofficially I've listened to the audio books until the end of Winter;s Heart :look:
 

Toral Delvar

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oh, I didnt't see this reply
I think a delay is good
 

Toral Delvar

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Chapter 25
Egwene is still lying about being an Aes Sedai, even when there is no need
The Wise Ones learn that the Aes Sedai are looking for some information in the Palace library – Sorilea sends three to see if they can find the information first. Sometimes the Wise Ones are as ridiculous as Aes Sedai
The Aes Sedai declined Berelain’s offer of shade. The Wise Ones refuse, as, like almost all people in the books, they don’t really believe that other people don’t follow their cultural practices
The Wise Ones disapprove of the Aes Sedai having Eyes and Ears (spies). How they square this with getting information from Egwene about the Aes Sedai is a mystery
We are told about men from the Aiel who learn they can channel going to the Blight to hunt the Dark One – how many go?
Egwene notes that the Wise Ones don’t mention how they once failed the Aes Sedai.
She goes to spy on the Aes Sedai – seems a little reckless to me
Egwene asks Gawyn for a favor – he says he will do anything other than become Dragonsworn or hurt Elayne or Andor. Again, there was never any possibility even implied that he might turn against Egwene
She realizes her dream meant that she would bond him
She tells him she loves him. I know they have been building up to this, but it really isn’t based off anything – she barely said a word to him before leaving TarValon
She tells him Rand didn’t kill Morgase, but doesn’t tell him what actually happened. He might not believe it, but really, she ought to be telling him this.
The Aes Sedai plot with the Lords and Ladies over who could take power when Rand leaves
Galina had heard that Moiraine had the trick of eavesdropping
Chapter 26
One of the Whitecloaks tries to kill Rand. He fails, and Rand send the survivor to tell Pedron Nial he will hang for it
Rand is adding names to his list. Somehow Ilyena has got on it
The whole number of lines to Ishara doesn’t seem to make sense to me – how many lines does Elayne have? If someone with 30 lines marries someone with 25, does their child have 55?
Rand questions Elenia as he is worried he might be related to Elayne, but he isn’t really
Chapter 27
People, even gai’shan are wearing the siswai’aman headbands. I never got what was going on with that
Egwene thinks Elaida and Alviarin had planned her note between them – I don’t think this is true
Egwene repeats that Pedron Nial would go to the White Tower if summoned. I really don’t think he would
Rand hides Egwene with air – I think the Lews Therin voice tells him what to do. He speaks to air above her head, so I think she is also hidden from him
The Aes Sedai are holding saidar. He tells them to release the source and knows when they have, so it should be obvious he can tell if they are holding it
They give him chests of gold, basically as a bribe. Egwene thinks Nesune is the most dangerous of the three
He tells them not to come within a mile of him without permission, and from the Palace. Then dismisses them
He asks after Alviarin, and Galina answers, surprised – probably taveren work
She asks how he travels, and he explains, but it is different to the way women do it. His way makes her feel queasy and he thinks hers sounds dangerous.
Egwene lies to him about the Sea Folk – once again, if she had been honest, it could really have helped
Coiren accepts Rand could tell they were holding saidar, Galina insists he could not, mostly because it would be inconvenient
Nesune knew Egwene was there, but not who it was – could she tell how strong the hidden person was?
 

Aduiavas Ida

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In chapter 26, I don't think that was Pedron Niall's Whitecloaks? Was it Padan Fain, or possibly Valda? Who sent those men? I don't think Niall thinks about this the few times we are in his thoughts...
 

Toral Delvar

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That makes sense- Nial had said he wanted Rand to run free. We might see later if he has started to regeret that
 
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