The Wheel of Time Re-read (currently reading - Lord of Chaos)

[Alexr al'Petros]

Perhaps the large grey speckled fowl is a turkey?

Also, I don't think Rand's way of asking to enter the Hold was an accident. Both Couladin and Rhuarc say "I ask leave to enter your hold, roofmistress." Which we learn is the way that a Clan Chief asks permission. But Heirn, a Sept Chief, says "Roofmistress, I ask leave to come beneath your roof." Indicating that he is NOT a Clan Chief and hasn't been to Rhuidean. Rand uses the exact same words as the Sept Chief (vice the Clan Chief) along with bowing. Lian responds "Such modesty." Rand (as Chief of Chiefs), could have used the same words as Rhuarc; but by not doing so; he leaves the opening to the roofmistress to recognize him as more than he appears. Which she does.

It's a brilliant diplomatic move. I also don't think it was an accident; because earlier, during his inner dialogue he was talking about "I am not Aiel..." and he mentions hearing Avienda's breath catch; b/c he was supposed to "say the other thing" which suggests he was taught how to do it as a Clan Chief. I think he is being deliberate in trying to avoid presuming a particular role in Aiel society combined with his own "Two-river" sense of courtesy.

 

[Toral Delvar]

I'll have to check his exact thoughts, but my reading was that he realised when he said it that he was supposed to say the other thing, and Lian was polite by not acknowledging his mistake

 

[Toral Delvar]

Looking forward to finishing the book this week

 

[Toral Delvar]

The ending to this book is a significant departure from te first three. Book one, everyone is together, book two, they aren't together, but are all close - the Rand/Mat/Perrin barely interacts with Elayne/Nynaeve/Egwene/Min, Book 3, everyone converges on Tear and although they do their own thing, it is all part of a bigger story. In this one, their storylines stay separate
Chapter 50
Rand absolutely does not trust Moiraine, and really, who can blame him?
He notices that Aiel girls wore their hair in braids like Egwene has and decides it is coincidence. Not too bright here
When he tells the Maidens he wants to give Aviendha a gift, they misunderstand the reason and make him take part in a weird ceremony
Melaine says she will make Rand know their blood for his if she has to lay the... (bridal wreath)
What fool girl does Melaine want to talk sense into?
Lanfear visits his dreams - she sees Elayne, Min and Aviendha but apparently doesn't pay enough attention to know who they are
Aviendha says she cannot enter the dream without one of them to help her - how does that work? I don't think we ever see a non dreamwalker from the Aiel in Tel'aran'rhiod
MAt immediately realises that there were not enough trollocs to cause any real trouble and they were meant as a distraction, to pull people away from somewhere else
Again, how do they get there? They are a couple of weeks away from Imre Stand, so were they tracking the Aiel for that long?
Couladin packs up and heads for Alcair Dal, so Rand realises he must go after him, as he can't afford to let Couladin get there long before him
Chapter 51
I find the Elayne/Nynaeve chapters more of a slog than the Rand/Mat or Perrin chapters
Sursa are basically chopsticks right? Based on what Rendra says about it being the fashion, I think that Sursa are not normally used in Tarabon
When Domon walks in on them, he shouts "you" and Egeanin leaps up and attacks him. Nynaeve blames him and is angry
Egeanin and Domon seem impressed with each other
Bayle refers to Juilin as the fisherman - I guess Illian, despite being a port city doesn't have much of a fish trade?
When Thom asks how they found out where the Black Ajah ws, Elayne implies it was by Aes Sedai methods. She immediately regrets it, not because she was being dishonest, but because she expects him to find out she was
While she enjoyes his approval, Elayne thinks Thom is a foolish bard who threw it away to become a gleeman. Apparently, she isn't even a little curious as to why
Thom suggests Cerindra as a possible source for information on Amathera and berates himself for listening to a laundryman who claimed to hear Amathera singing bawdy songs. He actually has this the wrong way round here.
I had to look up the word tirewoman
Chapter 52
In Tel'aran'rhiod, Callandoor no longer hangs in the air, but rises out of the floor, where Rand left it
Bair and Amys warn Nynaeve about uncontrolled thoughts and she is unable to take criticism, remarking she controls them very well, when evidently she doesn't
They change her hair and she thinks it must have been a stray thought. For some reason she believes they couldn't have done it
She also throws something of a tantrum when they call her a foolish girl
She asks about getting into Amathera's dreams and they warn her off, but surely just watching is fine - they do that with Rand
They both expect to be finished in seven days
She sees Moghedien and Birgitte has to step in to stop her attacking
Birgitte is an archer and sometime soldier. She does not know why she is talking to Nynaeve - it would make sense if Nynaeve is ta'veren, but she is not
Nynaeve finds the device to control Rand - a type of male a'dam. She feels pain, suffering, sorrow- is this because it was used?
Nynaeve plans to "pick a bone" with Moghedien
Bayle looks Egeanin up and down and she remarks he is rather good looking

 

[Toral Delvar]

Chapter 53
It is now seven days since the first trolloc attack and the village council constantly defer to Perrin
There are too many injured for the Aes Sedai to Heal the all
Aram follows Perrin constantly. Perrin realises this is not healthy, but does not know what to do about it
Someone comes to tell Perrin "we are coming" - seems pretty obviously one of the other villages
Loial and Gaul return from sealing the Waygate. They estimate several thousand trollocs and fifty Myrdraal
In Tel'aran'rhiod, Perrin again has to force the axe instead of the hammer
He stoops to pick up a doll and this saves his life
Perrin notes that Luc resembles Rand a little - confirmation if there was doubt of who he is
Ban calls him Lord Perrin - most people still seem to just call him Perrin
Perrin agrees to marry Faile to get her out of the way. Just how long has he known her? It can't be much more than six weeks
Loial and Aram stand for Perrin, Bain and Chiad for Faile. I guess Gaul is too injured as he seems a better choice than Aram
Chapter 54
Nynaeve doesn't like or trust Egeanin, but agrees to take her with them as an extra pair of eyes
Elayne curtsies to a cook who thinks she is being mocked - Elayne proably gave her the same sort of curtsy that servants used to give her
Of the Aes Sedai and Accepted Elayne knows, only she, Egwene and Nynaeve can do three or four things with the power at once
Elayne shields Temaile - is this something she was taught?
Amethera wants to beat Temaile and go rouse her legion. Elayne disaproves, but her behaviour is no worse than Egwene and Elayne's was when Mat rescued them in the Stone
Nynaeve and Moghedien get into a duel with the Power - I really like this scene, especially when Nynaeve realises Moghedien is also giving everything she has
Jeaine apparently felt their battle and came to investigate. Even with the balefire rod, this seems risky

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

The end of the Shadow Rising is UPON US!!!

What do you all want to do - should we start Fires of Heaven immediately after?
I was thinking to take a break during the holidays and continue with it at the beginning of next year. And that way some people who have fallen behind can use the time to catch up to us.

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

Perrin and Faile have known each other for nearly a year, it comes up when they discuss the marriage. They spent quite some time in Tear between books
I love that scene, with Faile knowing exactly what Perrin is doing, but instead of arguing or berating him as she would do later, she goes along with it.

As for Elayne and Nynaeve, I am surprised at how well this plan works. Apart from the small hiccup of meeting Moghedien, they manage to get the male a'dam, and rescue Amathera. I understand her wish to beat up Temaile, I might have wanted the same.
I am surprised Jemaile dared to go investigate. In general, as we see, the Black Ajah are not very confrontational, preferring to work in the shadows. Though she only comes after the major battle is done. I think this is the first time in the series we really understand just how strong Nynaeve are. Sure, Moghedien is not among the strongest of the Forsaken, but the mere fact that Nynaeve can match her is very telling.

 

[Toral Delvar]

Did they really know each other nearly a year? I think they got to to Tear pretty quickly after meeting - can't be more than 10 days at most, and we are told it was 7 days since the first attack, so maybe 10 days since they left Tear.
The two Black Ajah sisters were killed at the beginning of this book - I can believe they were imprisoned a week or two, but no way would they just be left in Tear for nearly a year. Same with the Aiel, and even Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve. We also see Siuan get the message that Rand took Callandoor, which would have to be pretty soon after it happened, though those two timelines could be out of sync.

 

[Toral Delvar]

Chapter 55
Nynaeve admits to capturing Moghedien but that she escaped. She seems a little proud of herself for admitting she escaped. Or maybe for capturing her in the first place. It's not clear to me what she thinks she should have done here
Domon has 300 sailors forming a protective circle - he must have done very well indeed since Falme
Elayne is annoyed with Amethera for having little idea of the lives of the common folk - concern about justice and the idea that nobles are supposed to provide for commoners seems a common thing with her
Juilin suggests taking the collar to the White Tower for safekeeping, but Nynaeve says that is too dangerous. It's kind of interesting that the Tairen, who has grown up always mistrsting Aes Sedai is the one who thinks they can be trusted here
Nynaeve thinks of how Egeanin looks fondly on Domon, and that Elayne loves man who will go mad, she can work out way to enjoy sharing what she can of Lan with a woman she hates
Chapter 56
By now, even Ban is calling Perrin "Lord Perrin" - this surely can't be more than a few days since the last time we saw them
Bornhald still thinks Perrin is working with the Trollocs and calls him Shadowspawn
Perrin thinks Bornhald had agreed to support the Two Rivers men where the fighting was hottest. I re-read the conversation where Perrin got them to stay and I still dont see any such agreement
Perrin shames him into staying, but still doesn't insist they fight as part of the deal "When it's over, when the Trollocs are done, I'll not resist if you try to arrest me"
Loial is apparently oblivious to his own actions and thinks the idea that he could be an Ogier hero is a joke
Verin asks him when he is going to give up the axe for the hammer - Does this mean she knows the prophecy of the wolfing in the last says
The trollocs chant "ISAM", which Verin finds interesting. I assume after the writings in Fal Dara, she knows who Isam is
Gaul and Chiad are fighting back to back, Bain went with Faile - I'm not sure Perrin realises the significance of this
They are about to be overwhelmed, when men from Deven Ride and Watch Hill arrive - I know the last minute rescue is exciting, but its so cliche
Faile realised that "We are coming" from the man from the south meant, but didn't tell Perrin as she didn't want to get his hopes up
Faile makes him agree to tell her when he is angry, but makes no such promise herself. So much could have been avoided if she had the maturity to do this
Bornhald comes to arrest Perrin as agreed, but Perrin said he wouldn't resist if they aided. He didn't. He wanted them to help,and expected them to, but his agreement was just that they could arrest him if they survived
Perrin sends them out of the Two Rivers. After seeing this, the mayor of Deven Ride decides to return there to do the same
Faile says marriage has made her as bold as a Domani girl - at least this time its not a farmgirl at harvest she compares herself to
Fain is thinking of himself as Ordeith and seems to know something of Isam
He thinks the Red Eagle had harried him, long ago - a little bit of historical trivia, it seems that there was more than mere disaproval of aridhol's methods. The whitecloaks with him are now fullycorrupted
Chapter 57
The Aiel are weird, everyone knows about Aviendha's ivory bracelet, but they pretend not to see it and she hides it if she thinks they do
He is the first son of a Maiden that comes back to them. How common is this sort of blind adoption in the waste? If a wise one comes and says "hey, I'm going to give you this random baby to raise as your own", don't they assume it is the child of a Maiden?
They get him drunk and Aviendha just stares stonily. It is clear to me that she doesn't actually hate him, she just wants to. And to be honest, we can probably work out why
Fifteen thousand Tardaad Aiel make up about 2/3 of the Septs - this is not all, they sent as many as they could, but left others behind for safety. So, if it was all the septs, twenty two and a half thousand - what proportion of the Aiel are members of Warrior societys? I'd use this to estimate the total number of Tardaad between 50 and 200 thousand
Rhuarc says that if two Aiel from different clans meet, they discuss water, three discuss water and grazing and four fight
Mat tries to toss a coin to decide if he should go with Rand, but it bounces oddly and rolls away. He blames Rand
Couladin reveals he also has two dragon tattoos and intends to take the Aiel into the Wetlands to take back what was theirs
Couladin's mother was Far Dareis Mai, but she gave up the Spear
Rand is forced to reveal that the Aiel were once the Dai'shan Aiel, against the wishes of the clan chiefs
Couladin can't believe it, despite knowing it must be true
only one man in three survives Rhuidean - I think we were previously told this
Couladin attacks and Rand channels a storm to prevent a battle. He pushes everyone away from him, apart from Lanfear who someone makes her way into his protective dome
She talks about the Choedan Kal, and how they can challenge (the creator/Dark One) with them
He folds reality to create a gateway
Chapter 58
The gateway was for skimming, though he wouldn't have been there long enough to open a traveling gateway. I don't know why Asmodean didn't - the trick of learning a place by traveling there should have worked, so he could hav opened one to a place within view and then to Rhuidean
Rand sees Asmodean in the void - just how does that work anyway?
Intitially, Rand was using steps and running, but after seeing Asmodean, creates a platform and "moves" that
The platform he is on comes to a stop and he flies through the doorway Asmodean had created and he had held open into Chaendar. Asmodean had left a trap, sharp silver blue ribbons floating in the air
They both grab the access key, Rand is aware of the statue in Cairhien. They hit each other with the power, but are equal until Rand also adds the power from his angreal and forms a sword to cut the imagined black wires linking Asmodean to the Dark One
Lanfear arrives and says outright they could use it to displace the Dark One
Asmodean calls her Mierin for some reason and she gets so mad she tries to kill him. Rand stops her and she comes to her senses. He uses a bar of white hot fire ten feet high. I assume this is what burns Avendesora
Lanfear says she does not kill or hurt without cause - possibly true, but her idea of "cause" is what makes this less of an absolute thing
He asks which one she was, and I think she implies that she was Isendre because her pride can support a little fat when it must, but she also talks about how she framed Isendre
Rand mentions the great tree, but not that it is damaged, which I would have thought merrited a mention. He also thinks people will come to tende Avendesora. It really does seem like when this was written, RJ imagined it undamaged
Their fight disrupted the geology and a lake is forming.
They Skim back again, the step stops and Rand opens a gateway - Rand didn't choose when to stop it
He gets back and Aviendha half raises a hand to him - again, not the response to someone she hates
He comes back with Asmodean, and the prophecy said he will chain the shadowsworn to his will from the city lost and forsaken. Really, Moiraine should realise here. Maybe she does

 

[Toral Delvar]

Four books in, I was thinking of how the characters have changed. How long has it been? The Eye of the World took place over a few weeks, then a gap - maybe six months, the great hunt was maybe six months for the girls and a few weeks for the boys. Another gap, maybe 6 months. The Dragon Reborn was again a few weeks - how big is the continent, and how quickly can people cross it on foot?. A slight gape between the end of this and the Shadow Rising - Perrin has two weeks of beard, and Faile says news of Rand has been leaving the city for two weeks, so it is likely two weeks. The Shadow Rising also seems to take place over about 2 weeks
At the start, I think Egwene was by far the most immature - Mat is often named, but although he was a little reckless and enjoyed juvenile tricks, she loses points because she thought she was mature. He still doesn't like the idea of responsibility, but I think maybe the doorway here finally taught him about doing things without thinking of the consequences (taking the dagger and the doorway in Tear did not). We are going to see Egwene improve as the Aiel mold her, but for now, she still takes any disagreement personally, thinks she knows better than everyone else, makes snap judgements based on little to no information, and has double standards on how she judges people depending on how close to them she feels. At least none of this applies to Mat, who is aware of how little he knows or understands and tries to take this into account as much as he can when he makes decisions

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

Four books in, I was thinking of how the characters have changed. How long has it been? The Eye of the World took place over a few weeks, then a gap - maybe six months, the great hunt was maybe six months for the girls and a few weeks for the boys. Another gap, maybe 6 months. The Dragon Reborn was again a few weeks - how big is the continent, and how quickly can people cross it on foot?. A slight gape between the end of this and the Shadow Rising - Perrin has two weeks of beard, and Faile says news of Rand has been leaving the city for two weeks, so it is likely two weeks. The Shadow Rising also seems to take place over about 2 weeks

So, while reading I was taking notes about the timeline for my articles:
- Eye of the World - takes approximately 2 (WoT) months. Day 1 being Bel Tine, which is the beginning of Aine, and I believe that a little bit before they reach Caemlyn, one month has passed, so they are already in Adar. After Caemlyn, until the end of the book, there is around twelve days, which makes book 1 take part in a month a half, or little less than two months.
- The Great Hunt, overall, takes approximately 7 (WoT) months, with all the Portal Stone and Ways traveling, and then Falme etc., and the book ends in the start of winter, i've approximated that that means Danu (a little before the end of the year).
- Dragon Reborn begins in the start of spring, which is two-three months after TGH. So we're already a year in, which makes it Aine again. The White Tower timeline with Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne and Mat takes 3 days and then they leave, so it's basically a matter of calculating how long it's taken them from TV to Tear with Mat taking a detour in Andor and the girls staying a while in Tear. I would assume two-three (WoT) weeks, like your suggestion, Toral, which makes book 3 end at the end of Aine or beginning of Adar 999NE.
- In the Shadow Rising Egwene has spoken to Rand about : "how the Bel Tine festival might have gone this year and what Sunday would be like.", so we're somewhere between those two holidays, and like you said Faile said "news has been leaving Tear for two weeks", so I would say they've been at the Stone for that long before the beginning of the book. 4 more days until they leave for the Waste, 7 days in Rhuidean, 1 day to Imre Stand, 12 days to Cold rocks hold, 3 days to Al'cair Dal, so book 4 I think takes part in the span of a little over a (WoT) month and a half.

So at the end of the Shadow Rising, we should be around the middle to the end of Saven 999NE, a year and three months since the beginning.

For me, it seems everyone has changed, but maybe Rand most of all and maybe Mat least of all :P

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

I also posted an update about the schedule in my first post!

THE RE-READ WILL CONTINUE WITH BOOK 5 FROM JANUARY 3, 2022!

(obviously, whoever wished to continue reading during the holidays is free to do so )

 

[Toral Delvar]

I’m not sure Rand has changed much. He’s getting less trusting, and beginning to be more of a leader and more assertive, but much of that is forced - he has to act a way, but it’s not natural to him

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

New year new book same re-read :joy

Today we officially start The Fires of Heaven Who is excited? Who is still with us?

First post has the Schedule and also a sig for those who wish to use it!

 

[Toral Delvar]

I'm in!

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

I still haven't finished Shadow Rising I'm currently in a wedding, where Perrin writes a surprisingly sentimental letter. That whole scene also brings tears when I hear it in Kramers voice

 

[Cinna Vrammar]

I've been here but just lurking the thread the whole time - excited to get back to it!

 

[Alexr al'Petros]

Looking forward to continuing!

 

[Melina Tashir]

Started it last night :joy

 

[Aduiavas Ida]

In chapter 55 of Shadows Rising now, the battle between Nynaeve and Moghedien.
I do wonder what the "talk" between Amathera and Elayne consisted of.

Do we ever learn what happened to Jeaine Caide? Was she consumed by that balefire ter'angreal, or burn herself out?