Tar Valon and White Tower Sanitation

Elucia Nileran

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As a civil engineering student, I can't help but think about how the White Tower and Tar Valon as a city manage their waste and water. It's mentioned a bit in the books when Elaida lets waste build up in the street. As for water, there is mention of washstands, cisterns, latrines, water being brought up for bathing, maybe bathhouses, and a tunnel that lets wastewater out of the tower. Is there a sewer system? I assume while reading these books that they have a Roman level of sanitation technology and road building in Tar Valon.
On a different track, if I were a brown sister in the white tower and I wanted cats, how do you handle animal waste? Verin Sedai has an owl and in the description of her study, it is mentioned it is extremely dusty. I would assume Verin is disposing of owl pellets by herself. I'm guessing she burns them in her own fireplace so that she doesn't set books on fire.
Also, how do they vent hearth smoke from all those hearths?
 

Alexr al'Petros

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I think considering Roman sanitation systems is pretty smart. I'm always amazed at how sophisticated it was. As for the smoke vent, I'd imagine a system similar to those used in medieval monasteries and cathedrals.
 

Teavin Calayna

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However animal waste is taken care of would have to be entirely separate from how the human waste is taken care of. The bacteria in animal waste is hazardous and you're not meant to flush it down the toilet. That aside, we also have several mentions of chamber pots and if Elaida is allowing waste to gather in the streets then I assume in that case people are just throwing it out the window and letting other animals like horses just poop in the street
 

Satara al'Caelahn

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I'm sure that for some forms of animal waste, they could sell it (or just give it?) to surrounding farms as fertilizer, especially horse manure which is notoriously good for gardens.
 

Catt Heckathorne

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I have a bit of background in archaeology and one of the things that chamber pot waste (whether human or animal) can be used for is a type of structure architecture called wattle and daub. This was super common in the Tudor period in English history. Basically, dung is mixed with hair and hay in order to create a type of plaster. Walls are constructed with a basket weaving technique, then the plaster mix is smeared on, polished up, and finally fancied up with a few layers of whitewash. Fun fact: Our modern drywall is derived from this technique.

For the smoke, I would imagine hypocaust flooring would be helpful for taking full advantage. Basically, it's a direct ancestor of our modern radiant floor heating. Ours is done with hot water in piping underneath floors; the Romans purposely built channels for smoke and heat to help warm their floors.

Otherwise I would agree with the Roman system of managing waste. Maybe a combination of Roman + Tudor England?

:cheeseeni:
 

Boreas Silverfir

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As a civil engineering student, I can't help but think about how the White Tower and Tar Valon as a city manage their waste and water. It's mentioned a bit in the books when Elaida lets waste build up in the street. As for water, there is mention of washstands, cisterns, latrines, water being brought up for bathing, maybe bathhouses, and a tunnel that lets wastewater out of the tower. Is there a sewer system? I assume while reading these books that they have a Roman level of sanitation technology and road building in Tar Valon.
On a different track, if I were a brown sister in the white tower and I wanted cats, how do you handle animal waste? Verin Sedai has an owl and in the description of her study, it is mentioned it is extremely dusty. I would assume Verin is disposing of owl pellets by herself. I'm guessing she burns them in her own fireplace so that she doesn't set books on fire.
Also, how do they vent hearth smoke from all those hearths?
I kinda thought that maybe The White Tower was more Babylonian in construction than Greek or Roman. The lost Hanging Gardens probably have some impact of the design for the movement of water through the towering citadel.
Throughout the series, it seems that the movement of water has degraded to some degree. Very few places are described as having proper sewers for waste removal. They are only described as having water collection areas underground. This lends to the belief that the collection, retention, and transportation of water through cities are on par with what we've read about from medieval Europe. Which would imply that there are designated cess pits and manual laborers who rake the muck.
 
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Perhaps they have been dumping their waste in the Ways. That would explain the Black Wind....

Ok, I'll see myself out...
 
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Something that happened in New Spring makes me think of possibilities for Aes Sedai 'chores'.

They disposed of a body with weaves of fire so hot there wasn't any smoke at all.

So its a normal everyday chore just to float the kitty litter out the window and incinerate it far enough away to avoid any of the secondary effects.
Just thinking of justification for what isn't mentioned in the books, but I suppose there aren't enough Aes Sedai who would be willing to take on chores like that...
 

Idine Espanyas

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That’s such an interesting question, I never really considered it. I imagine the animal waste, especially horse manure, would be composted and turned into manure. People have been doing that since we have had domesticated animals. Not sure about the human waste. It can also be composted but maybe they would have done more creative things in that world.
 
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