Senior Membership Option without being Aes Sedai or Gaidin?

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Leese Sulan

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Pain is valid. But holding onto it continues that pain. I'm open to private conversation if anyone wants to express that pain if its in an effort to resolve or let go of that pain. But no, I'm not going to entertain public attempts to further punish me or be cruel, if they arise. I learned a hard lesson and I deserve a fair attempt to be part of the overall community. Thankyou for the well wishes. I want good things for everyone as well.
 

Aran Cherubim

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Back in the day when the upranked Citizen status was put forward, I or someone else suggested the title "Noble", as a generally neutral but self-evidently senior rank. I still think it's a nice idea - and it avoids the somewhat nonsensical "resident citizen" (as opposed to an itinerant one?) - but on the other hand it might give off the wrong idea and vibes. It might have also come up back when we were doing the integration focus group thing, and we were discussing back and forth over whether to do gender-agnostic paths, or keep Warders/ASs gendered but introduce a third non-gendered one.

Anyway, all that's in the past now.

As for the Apartments:
My general impression is that SMs do not really think of that place as "their" turf, and so rarely visit it - beyond those who already frequent the City section. Giving some Resident Citizens (or whatever the title might be, doesn't really matter) access to some SM boards might on the one hand increase the interaction, as the smaller group is likely to visit the larger group, as opposed to how it's now where the smaller group needs to "attract" the attention of the larger group. It would however render the Apartments kind of irrelevant, I agree.

No clear solution from me, just some personal observations.
 

Anujun Trahearn

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@Alexstrasza Ruskea I think you bringing up specific grievances here, unprompted, is cruel and inappropriate. I'm sure that kind of venting can be more productive in private channels, yes?

I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone who doesn't want to join an Ajah or Company to be able to earn some other sort of senior membership. I wonder if a few current SMs - who aren't necessarily comfortable in their Ajah or Company, but who don't want to demote - might like the idea too. Such people may not feel comfortable voicing that fact publicly, so perhaps an anonymous poll could be helpful? In any case, if such a membership level is created, I suggest making it gender/channeling neutral. Perhaps an elevated citizen rank, like Lord/Lady/Gentry? Or a political flavour, like Councillor or Consort? Just thinking out loud.

I think the idea has merit.
 
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@Alexstrasza Ruskea I think you bringing up specific grievances here, unprompted, is cruel and inappropriate. I'm sure that kind of venting can be more productive in private channels, yes?

Someone started a thread asking about the possibility of a significant change to the Tower specifically because of difficulties they've had finding a home. They listed the reasons they felt caused this, but chose to omit at least one significant factor that they brought on themselves. It's relevant to their particular situation but paints them in a bad light and won't do much to move the conversation along, so they didn't bring it up. That's fine, most of us that were involved probably wouldn't have bothered addressing it here. But then autism was brought up as a factor. It's not hard to understand why someone else who deals with that issue and was affected by that specific grievance that wasn't mentioned might be insulted, because it absolutely comes off as having made some very inappropriate choices while guesting and then trying to hide them behind a disorder that no one is going to hold against you. Whether intentional or not, if you insult someone by misrepresenting yourself, you can't be surprised if you're called out on it.

For the record I'm not trying to derail the thread or start this aspect of the discussion up again. I considered making it a PM as the quote suggests, but given that the quote itself wasn't sent as a PM it's only fair to address it this way.
 

Calen Velervron

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@Alexstrasza Ruskea I think you bringing up specific grievances here, unprompted, is cruel and inappropriate. I'm sure that kind of venting can be more productive in private channels, yes?

I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone who doesn't want to join an Ajah or Company to be able to earn some other sort of senior membership. I wonder if a few current SMs - who aren't necessarily comfortable in their Ajah or Company, but who don't want to demote - might like the idea too. Such people may not feel comfortable voicing that fact publicly, so perhaps an anonymous poll could be helpful? In any case, if such a membership level is created, I suggest making it gender/channeling neutral. Perhaps an elevated citizen rank, like Lord/Lady/Gentry? Or a political flavour, like Councillor or Consort? Just thinking out loud.

I think the idea has merit.

just returning to the site and already with all the opinions... helpful.

If I remember correctly from your leaving last time you of all people should understand where Alex is coming from but I guess not. Or maybe it just doesn’t fit what or who you want to impress right now.

Not knowing the history of an issue will absolutely out you at a disadvantage each and every time. There are a lot of people on the site that want to claim victim hood and get called on bad behavior and then instead of accepting responsibility (novel concept) they rush back to victimhood again. It’s gas lighting at its finest.
 

Alexstrasz Ruskein

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@Alexstrasza Ruskea I think you bringing up specific grievances here, unprompted, is cruel and inappropriate. I'm sure that kind of venting can be more productive in private channels, yes?

Oh hey, the conversation had died down and you dragged it back up again for no reason. You could have done that in a private channel, too, but then what would be performative about that?


That's fine, most of us that were involved probably wouldn't have bothered addressing it here. But then autism was brought up as a factor. It's not hard to understand why someone else who deals with that issue and was affected by that specific grievance that wasn't mentioned might be insulted, because it absolutely comes off as having made some very inappropriate choices while guesting and then trying to hide them behind a disorder that no one is going to hold against you.

This.


There are a lot of people on the site that want to claim victim hood and get called on bad behavior and then instead of accepting responsibility (novel concept) they rush back to victimhood again. It’s gas lighting at its finest.

Also this.
 

Leese Sulan

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I don't hold anything against Alexstasza for their words here. I disagree on a few things said, but I'm not going to debate because I feel there can and should be different views and experiences and to have respect for them.

If anyone else is following the conversation and has temptations to chime any kind of defense on my behalf, please don't. The others are right that people not involved should not chime in.

If the victim and gaslighting comment is directed at me, my reply is simply no. I am not a victim, and I strive to be better than past behaviour. I don't want to hurt anybody, and I have regretted for a long time that I have in the past.
 

Alexstrasz Ruskein

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As for the Apartments:
My general impression is that SMs do not really think of that place as "their" turf, and so rarely visit it - beyond those who already frequent the City section. Giving some Resident Citizens (or whatever the title might be, doesn't really matter) access to some SM boards might on the one hand increase the interaction, as the smaller group is likely to visit the larger group, as opposed to how it's now where the smaller group needs to "attract" the attention of the larger group. It would however render the Apartments kind of irrelevant, I agree.

I would love for there to be a solution that would make Resident Citizens feel more like a part of the community, and make the rest of the site feel like they are more of a part as well. If Resident Citizens were given access to the SM forums, the Apartments could become JUST a Citizen space, if Citizens feel like that would be a valuable thing to have (if there isn't already such a thing). It makes sense that SMs might not really consider the Apartments to be their "turf." I hadn't thought about it like that before.
 

Elania al'Manir

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Having a Citizen-only forum is a great idea. As far as I know, all of their spaces are at least semi-public, and every other group has its own space. SMs have lots of their own places based on group, gender, everyone together, etc. and JMs have the Abandoned Corridor to hang out in.
 

Alenya Al'Roran

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As a citizen, I read that the Apartments were a place for Resident Citizens to hang out with SMs, but I don't really see the Citizens in there all that often. I think it would be fun if the Resident Citizens were more active in there.
 

Aran Cherubim

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It's not communicated that well. Well, that and there's not a lot of us, I guess?

I've underutilized it myself, so I'm as much to blame as everyone else - although I've only really put in an effort to get more active here on TV.net for like the last year or so.
 

Sa'areah Britthorn

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It is on the list to create a better structure for Citizens and SMs to utilise the spaces we already have, so there's merit in that at least.


The changes to creating a third path is, as I said, something we can discuss. We're always open to new ideas.
 

Morgana Arakos

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:hug @Leese Sulan

Personally, I like the idea of the resident citizen path having some way to move up to senior membership. I don't think that wanting this is necessarily "shallow" or "about achievement points." If anything, it seems to me to be about a desire to find a way to be more involved with the community, which is exactly what we should want.
 

Alenya Al'Roran

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Thank you to everyone who has commented in this thread. We have had the opportunity to hear what you all had to say and, as Sa said, it has been added to the list for the Dependent of Membership's goals. I think this thread has run its course and, since it is on a public board and this thread has touched on some personal issues, I'm going to go ahead and lock it. If you have any personal issues that you feel are unresolved, please take them to a private space. Thanks, everyone!
 
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