Season 1 Episode 6 “The Flame of Tar Valon” with book spoilers

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Since Mo is a Sedai, if she just swore to not come back unless Siuan allowed her to, then she would be forced to do that, right?

If she swore under the Light and hope of salvation and rebirth, she wouldn't break it regardless of Aes Sedai - nobody would. I don't think Aes Sedai are forced to hold to their promises though, however she could obviously not say it unless she meant it. Make a promise that you intend to keep, and if you genuinely change your mind later because of something, I doubt it would hold you.

I really liked this episode, my favourite so far I think, or at least comparable with e4. A bit weird with opening a gate by channeling, but I assume there must be another way - maybe the Ogier have keys that can do the same, like ter'angreal or something. Or maybe the waygate near Tar Valon is warded.
 

Ilissa al'Nari

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"Siuan Sanche waits for one woman only -- and it's not you". That made me lol. And I am completely in love with this episode, and with the relationship between Siuan and Moraine.

Considering the age of the actor who plays Siuan (and I like the casting!) - wonder what will happen when she gets stilled? Will they switch actors or just use huge dollops of makeup?
 

Morgana Arakos

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My guess is that they won't make any changes to her appearance, since they're not doing the ageless look.
 
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Mat staying behind was soooo weird. I know that the actor is changed and all that, so makes sense in regards to that, but considering the possibility that to Moiraine's knowledge at this point, Mat could be the dragon, why is she not concerned about him not coming/letting him leave behind????

Also the relationship between Moiraine and
Siuan
:omg:omg:omg:omg:love:love:love
 

Qamra Daielin

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She might be nervous but it was set up before with Siuan talking to the girls and saying they have no choice and they will all do what the Pattern wants you to do. This choice of Mats to stay behind will be shaken off as what the Pattern wants. (My thoughts only).
 

Veluene al'Myr

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My thoughts:
  • While I enjoyed the scenes with Siuan & Moiraine, I really hope that the relationship fizzles out so that there is time for Thom to get on the scene and build something with Moiraine in later seasons, fingers crossed.
  • Moiraine had so many good come backs this episode. I loved how she blackmailed Liandrin, how she told off Nynaeve, and her line about Siuan only waiting for one woman.
  • Both my fiance and I were yelling at the screen when it started to look Mat was going to be left behind with, "Do your job Lan!! Herd them in!" sheesh, he & Moiraine really should have been keeping an eye on them all and having allowed such a distance between them and Mat doesn't make sense.
Overall I liked it, but not as much as I liked episode 4. Hoping the non-book viewers stick with it because that is now two episodes of not much action and just setting things up. I for one like such episodes in general, however I worry the interest of viewers that liked it for the adventure part of the story may be waning a bit.
 

Karassa Souladrin

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If she swore under the Light and hope of salvation and rebirth, she wouldn't break it regardless of Aes Sedai - nobody would. I don't think Aes Sedai are forced to hold to their promises though, however she could obviously not say it unless she meant it. Make a promise that you intend to keep, and if you genuinely change your mind later because of something, I doubt it would hold you.

No, the whole point of the oaths on the rod is that they are unbreakable. Aes Sedai CANNOT lie. Even if they want to. That's why Verin saying Egwene's dress was green was such a HUGE deal.

In the books there's a scene where they are hunting for the black Ajah, and one sister swears to obey another, and then when she's being questioned, the sister she swore to tells her "admit you're a darkfriend", but she's not, but she's still bound by the oath to not lie, but also to obey, and the conflicting oaths nearly kills her.
 

Ilissa al'Nari

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I disagree about Thom -- while I didn't mind their relationship in the books it's also never been a big deal to me. But well, poly relationships are obviously a thing that's not nearly as frowned upon in their world than in ours, so maybe she'll have relationships with them both.

The scene with the oath rod -- I really didn't like it at first, but it's growing on me. Mostly because of the vibrant energy between Siuan and Moiraine, and that I feel it's very indicative of their characters and willingness to put their cause first. Also really felt how the sisters were turning their backs on M. after the sentence from Siuan -- even if it's a decision she asked for my heart really and truly ached for her. That kind of very public shunning is something I am not sure if I would be able to take, even if I had had a hand in the decision that led to it.
 
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When it comes to Moiraine and Thom I never really understood where their relationship came from.
What I'd love to see is
When it comes time to rescue Moiraine. Mat, Thom, and Siuan go in. Make Thom Jain Farstrider that way Siuan and Moiraine can Bond each other :love
 

Veluene al'Myr

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In the books? Sure Moiraine and Thom were lackluster. In the tv show? Rosamund Pike & Alexandre Willaume:

santana-lopez-glee.gif


P.S - Though to be fair Alexandre with just about anyone would work....
 

Keisha al'Benn

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Definitely not my favorite episode....I feel like all of the Loial scenes are too abrupt and Mat being left behind at the Ways....?!?
I know changes have to be made for reasons but leaving Mat behind just doesn't make sense at all....
 
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I know changes have to be made for reasons but leaving Mat behind just doesn't make sense at all...

I know that likely he was left behind for real-life actor leaving reasons.

But I think it made sense story-wise as well for Mat as a character to a certain extend.
He has always run away from being a hero and avoided responsibility. Maybe he'd feel sorry for leaving them in the second season and they'd use this for his character development ...
 

Nadezhda al'Lanahrin

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At the end of this episode, I was not sure this was my favorite. Definitely better than some of the others, but I largely felt that this episode was so quick. Thinking on this, I believe that this season need more episodes so that they could build up and lay a strong foundation. Perhaps, this is from my point of view of having read the books, but I think that the pacing is a large issue right now. It is way too fast and I do not think that we have enough time to really process everything that is going on. I think it was a mistake to introduce Tar Valon so early on, though I could change my mind in later seasons. I feel wishy-washy about this and conflicted, but I am sure that will resolve itself in the coming seasons.

Apart from the pacing, I really loved this episode's content, even though it felt like Moiraine just walking around Tar Valon for 50 minutes. My first impression is that we were really spoiled by Robert Jordan. While I know that we all sometimes complain about his lack of brevity, this TV show has made me appreciate his books even more. The TV show is just the small tip of the Wheel of Time iceberg.

Siuan was everything this episode. The actress took on the character as her own and I really enjoyed every second of Siuan. Her using fishy swears and metaphors made me laugh and cry at the same time. I am glad that they gave Siuan more emotions than just anger, they gave her weariness and sadness too. They made her much more relatable and that backstory with her father made curl up inside. We really saw a multi-faceted character in this episode, she was a different woman as the Amyrlin, as Moiraine's lover, and as simply Siuan with Egwene and Nynaeve. Just exceptional.

In this episode, I think we finally see Moiraine starting to lose her normal serenity. She is sacrificing so much for her mission. Even to the point where she has taken a penance of exile, not only from the White Tower, but from the woman she loves. I really like the theology of the Wheel being brought up regularly. When Siuan says she will see Moiraine again "in this life or the next" I really adored that. I felt particularly emotional when the sisters turned their backs on Moiraine. I could easily imagine and relate to that with this community online. Even though Moiraine has been traveling almost the entire time she has been an Aes Sedai, being exiled is more than just leaving a city, or a building, but with the Aes Sedai too.

I think that we are starting to see the potential of what Egwene could grow into. She channeled to save Perrin, she used the distraction of the wolves and Perrin's eyes to stab Valda and take the rings. Her meeting with Siuan shows a backbone and a determination: "What do we have to do?" I think that she is a foil to Nynaeve. Duty vs. Pride. And I think that this ties well into Nynaeve's block with channeling. She's too prideful to surrender to saidar, she's scared of being that small pinprick of light against the rest of saidar, like Moiraine said.

I am not sure if it is the White Tower and Moiraine's emotions, or the death of Stepin, but I think that Lan's shell is cracking a bit, he is speaking much more than he did in the first couple episodes. But, maybe this is because he is in private with Moiraine.

I think that the only character that doesn't have a lot of depth right now is Rand. His mother died, yes, but he didn't know her that much, and he had a kind father. I am hoping we get more depth from Rand, he doesn't even have that conflict of Tam's fever dream.

I have seen some comments about Loial being abrupt, but I think that all of the scenes in this episode had abrupt transitions and scenes sometimes felt too short, or cut off.

All in all, this episode was great and I need to watch it again to see what I think.
 

Imzadi Hopewind

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The episodes should be longer, just look at pictures in x-ray, lot that ain't shown in the episode. Wish they were like 2 hours each, or double the amount.
 

Aduiavas Ida

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Yes, I think that sums up my issues with the episode as well. We spend a lot of time with different Aes Sedai, and a lot of close-ups of Moiraines face, but everything else felt rushed.
 

Talia Inedar

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I think that the only character that doesn't have a lot of depth right now is Rand. His mother died, yes, but he didn't know her that much, and he had a kind father. I am hoping we get more depth from Rand, he doesn't even have that conflict of Tam's fever dream.

This seems on-brand for Rand, somehow :P Both in the series and the books [he's always appeared a bit flat to me, though that does get better.]
 
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I know that likely he was left behind for real-life actor leaving reasons.

But I think it made sense story-wise as well for Mat as a character to a certain extend.
He has always run away from being a hero and avoided responsibility. Maybe he'd feel sorry for leaving them in the second season and they'd use this for his character development ...

i don’t think it makes character sense at all. He might not like being a hero. But he was always there for his friends when the chips were down. This has him abandoning his friends.

And if the reason is that the actor left they changed the story line. Then that’s a terrible decision. You can’t let out of show stuff influence a script like that to that degree.

stick a stunt double in, cut his lines. AI his face whatever. hell, stick Rafe in a big cloak and have him shuffle along slowly and sickly would be better than shelfing the character.


Wait and see on Friday I guess.
 
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I really don’t think they left Mat behind because the actor left.
Didn’t he leave AFTER shooting was done?
 

Morgana Arakos

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Supposedly he left during the quarantine break, which happened between ep 6 and ep 7. So, they might've had to retcon that ending in after he broke contract.
 
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