Leala's Thoughts on the Aiel

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

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I'mma just put this here, because while I'm on the re-read. I'm already focusing on the Aiel every time someone brings them up during the Re-read, and I don't want it to overtake the conversation. :laugh:
 

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

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Oh! :laugh: I'm a huge fan! They're my favorite part of the books! I just don't want to flood the official re-read thread about them every time they're mentioned, so i made a thread for myself. :)
 

Alexr al'Petros

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My pardon if I intruded on your thread....but as long as we are here...what is it about the Aiel that you find the most interesting?

For me, it is the actualization of their cultural values of ji'e'toh.
 

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Oh, no worries. :) I'm still in the second book, so there are few mentions of them, and I'm totally open to discussion.

Well, I'm incredibly biased, so there are many, many things that i love about them. But, the main thing that resonates with me is that they embody taking a bad situation and thriving in their own way. It may not be perfect, but it's theirs.
 

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Does this include all of the descendants of the Jenn Aiel 'servants', or just the Aiel?
I think their backstory is fascinating - how one order/request can be interpreted differently over time by different people...
 

Alexr al'Petros

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Oh, no worries. :) I'm still in the second book, so there are few mentions of them, and I'm totally open to discussion.

Well, I'm incredibly biased, so there are many, many things that i love about them. But, the main thing that resonates with me is that they embody taking a bad situation and thriving in their own way. It may not be perfect, but it's theirs.

It is a very resilient approach to circumstances...resonates with early stoicism...

“Accept whatever comes to you woven in the pattern of your destiny, for what could more aptly fit your needs?”
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~ Marcus Aurelius


It also seems to fit in the larger theme of "the wheel weaves as ... "
 

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I am a fan of the Aiel as well. One of the defining characteristics of the people for me is the way they can as a community fully embrace one thing to drive their society and culture. And how some single event can send them a new path and track.

First there was the Way of the Leaf, a tough way for anyone to live in the world. They stick with it until the enevitable breaking point which takes them to ji ‘e’toh.

That holds until the Rand shows up and changes everything. Here was an interesting point where the community split in two. With both sides fully latching onto what they thought was right and the new best for the Aiel.

Even looking at the potential world Aviendha sees through the rings shows how as a people they took freeing their people from as a new all encompassing mission. One they couldn’t win.

I have no doubt they will adapt to the role laid out for them in the Peace of the Dragon well.
 

Alexr al'Petros

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I am a fan of the Aiel as well. One of the defining characteristics of the people for me is the way they can as a community fully embrace one thing to drive their society and culture. And how some single event can send them a new path and track.

. . . .

I have no doubt they will adapt to the role laid out for them in the Peace of the Dragon well.

Hal, that's a fantastic observation, thank you. I hadn't really appreciated the symmetry of their dissonance. They are utterly devoted....until they are not. The uncompromising nature of either perspective seems at odds with the base "value system" that I suggest of "accepting whatever comes" and yet, they are the most resilient in continuing to function despite rapidly changing circumstances....
 

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Ah, yes. The Aiel stubbornness is another trait that resonates with me. :laugh: I have no doubt Aviendha will set them on the right course in the Peace of the Dragon as well.
 

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I loved finding out about the final test to become a Wise One - it was just sooooo Aiel!! :rofl​
 

Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum

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OMG, it so was. :rofl I smile every time I read it. :laugh:
 

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One thing I find very interesting is the Aiel view of complaints. It strikes me as more than the typical warrior "never admit weakness" and more of it's a private experience that one goes through and is not something you discuss with others.
 

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This is something that I feel I've always done. I'll work through things in my head a lot. I wonder if the Aiel just kind of validated it for me. :look:

That's not to say that I *never* complain. It's just that when I do, I back it up.
 

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During the Re-read, Rand, Loial, and Hurin are in Cairhien. I think the wording was "The only monsters the people of the Foregate knew were the Aiel."

Just...all the suffering Laman brought on Randland because of his selfishness. Really rings true in Cairhien, even 20 years later.

Loial even mentions that the Topless Towers of Cairhien actually looked like towers before the war, but they're much, much shorter now.
 

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Hello, old thread that I thought was archived. :laugh:

My ADHD let me go back to reading TSR last night, and the Glass Columns chapters were what I had left off on.

So...Muradin. These flashes of him had me thinking.

He's a Shaido. I'm wondering if the columns were making him confront his clan's transgressions, and that's why he was uh....freaking out? :laugh:

Like...was he so entrenched in the Shaido's ways that when he saw the history of the Aiel, was the cognitive dissonance too much for him? I know we don't have answers, obviously, but it's something I hadn't thought of before this read. I had always just taken those chapters as Rand finding out about the Aiel's history and Muradin not being able to take it, and others also not being able to take it. So, obviously Muradin was just not cut out to be a chief. But I'm wondering now, was the fact that he's Shaido and raised in that clan's ways the reason he couldn't take it?
 

Alexr al'Petros

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So, obviously Muradin was just not cut out to be a chief. But I'm wondering now, was the fact that he's Shaido and raised in that clan's ways the reason he couldn't take it?

Really interesting question. I hope it was particular to Muradin (unknown Shaido sept but likely Domai Sept). The Shaido had Clan Chiefs before him and so they must have been able "to take it" although they were Shaido.

Yet for me your question also raises the issue a Melindhra, unknown sept, the Darkfriend Shaido that went after Matt. This seems to suggest that perhaps the Shaido as a Clan had slipped further from the light (or was it just these two?). (But see Sevenna, Jumai Sept and Couladin, Domai Sept). If the entire clan was generally moving in this direction; then that supports that perhaps Muradin, was too far from the light as a result of his Shaido Clan upbringing to accept the truth. Certainly the remarks by other non-Shaido Clan characters suggest that the Shaido as a clan may have finally reached a point where any proposed Chief "couldn't take it."
 

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Yes, it was specific to Muradin. In that the Shaido were so convinced that their ways were the right ways that he couldn't compartmentalize them from what he was experiencing. I'm definitely sure there were other Shaido clan chiefs who were able to do that. And, now that I think about it, Muradin was a few paces ahead of Rand when he started out, and hadn't seemed to be that bothered. It was when Rand started to catch up that he began to show signs of deteriorating. He may have even seen where the Shaido began to branch away from ji'e'toh/the Light, and uh...not taken it well. :look:
 
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