Laurien's Journey through EotW

[Cassie Dainar]

^also this

:rofl

 

[Laurien Achaur]

I visit this thread as often as you update it, and I love it so much, it's everything I thought it would be. I keep wanting to say things, but I have to bite it back and just... let you go on as you were. Thank you for this.

^ THIS.

^also this

:rofl

Awww I'm glad you're all enjoying this! I'm certainly enjoying off-loading my thoughts here.

 

[Laurien Achaur]

Chapter 19: Shadow's Waiting

- Mat: "It's as if some dead man was speaking with my mouth. I don't like it." Curiouser and curiouser... I'm really looking forward to learning what this means for Mat.
- Described in the daylight, the ruins of Aridhol sound like somewhere I'd love to explore myself. But the fact that it's now Shadar Logoth is going to whack the boys over the head any minute now...
- ...Mordeth, hm? Just the name sounds Forsaken. But is he that, or something else?
- For there to be a bounty of treasure all of a sudden just screams trap. As if Mordeth being there wasn't screaming it loud enough.
- Mat, you greedy bastard. (Either that or he's a magpie.)
- What's with all the watching eyes the boys are sensing? Is it part of the Mashadar or Mordeth?

Chapter 20: Dust on the Wind

- Show Comparison: The way Mashadar looks in the show is scarier than the fog it's described as in the book, but the way it acts in the book is a bit scarier than how it's depicted in the show to me. It crawling over every surface is bad enough, but being able to float and seek through the air ups the stakes. Why change it? My theory is that it has to do with 1) VFX budget/capabilities and 2) making it hard to discern from the shadows to compensate.
- And so the splitting of the party begins. The POV chapters are coming up!
- Show comparison: Having the Trollocs and Fades push into Shadar Logoth certainly ups the stakes, and getting to read that Mashadar messes them up, too, is satisfying. I suspect it would have been pretty difficult to shoot this under the given circumstances, however (and harder to deal with in post).
- I like getting a glimpse of Perrin's wheels turning.
- Rand, saved by a swinging ship boom... Is this another instance of him channeling? Given the fact that the Gelb insists he secured it, it would seem to be the case.
- Agh! No, boys, not Moiraine's coins! Though I suppose they might feel glad to be rid of them, all things considered.

Chapter 21: Listen to the Wind

- I officially like show Nynaeve better than book Nynaeve, though I know it's only because the show pacing is so much faster. I'm sure I'll grow to like her in the book eventually, but this chapter makes me so angry at her for this (quite frankly) toxic vitriol she has toward Moiraine. That Lan can see through it or even stand it is a miracle, especially in light of his bond to Moiraine. Maybe she can sense what he's seeing, though, which lends her more patience? Just a guess.
- I'm glad Moiraine just plows on ahead through Nynaeve's hatred and denial until she rattles her.
- Ah, so Egwene did get breakbone fever. Fitting that she was Nynaeve's first healing. It's very interesting to see how that tied them together so that now Nynaeve has a bead on her (and anyone else she's healed) almost all the time.
- Nynaeve: Light, a Wisdom is supposed to look after all of her people. Why do I have to choose like this? Welcome to your reality check, love.
- I'm glad Lan found her horse. She didn't deserve the satisfaction of his failure after all that hot-headedness.

Chapter 22: A Path Chosen
- Yay, Bela! Egwene owes that horse her life several times over at this point 3
- Aaaand the theme of not accepted what's right in front of one's face continues. What's even more frustrating about this when it comes to Perrin is that he's the most trusting of Moiraine out of all the boys, but he never quite gets there.
- Perrin takes the prospect of leading quite seriously. I think it's both admirable and adorable.

Chapter 23: Wolfbrother

- Good grief, Egwene really is a pushy little brat, isn't she? Poor Perrin. And poor Bela. :\
- In stories leaders seldom flinched, and they were never bullied. But, he reflected, they never had to deal with Egwene, either. I think this has to be my favorite line in the entire chapter
- ...I like this Elyas fellow. He's a grumbly hermit and made them food after watching them stumble around anyway.
- Oooo, wolfbrother!
- Elyas: "I don't much like people." I tend to think that fairly often myself
- Elyas' description of the way wolves "talk" and the essences of their names is so cool.
- Alright, so...the wolves "say" Perrin can talk to them, and suddenly much is made of his awareness of them. I know that being in the proximity of the wolves would make what he can do more obvious all of a sudden, but it feels like a snap development. I almost want to go back and look for foreshadowing. Maybe his accuracy with the sling? I feel like I've missed a few things. Not that it downplays the awesomeness of Perrin being a wolfbrother, of course.
- Nice try with the story, Egwene. And good on Perrin for telling the truth afterward.
- I really want to know what the source of the wolfkin's abilities is, especially since Elyas says it's not of the One Power. From the Green Man, maybe?
- YEEEESSS Perrin sassing Egwene!! Finally some push-back against her self-righteousness (because that's really what it feels like at this point).

Chapter 24: Flight Down the Arinelle

- I just want to hug Rand so hard after these dreams.
- The physical manifestation of certain parts of the dreams in the real world is so freaking creepy to me.
- ...Somebody punt Gelb overboard.
- Again with the treasure obsession, Mat. Where's that dagger you swiped, anyway?
- Four days later and Rand is losing it. I'm thinking literally, too; in riding the mast, there's a parallel in recklessness to what he was doing when he was facing the Whitecloaks. Whispers of the madness creeping in?
- Oh. There's the dagger. And Mat's acting like Gollum with the One Ring over it.
- Rand's self-awareness coming back around would seem to indicate that maybe the madness does have a bit to do with it. Either that or Ba'alzamon is messing with him via the dreams somehow.

Chapter 25: The Traveling People

- Just by the chapter title, I know we're meeting the Tuatha'an
- Good on Elyas for not taking any of Egwene's bossiness.
- Again with "the stories say." Egwene is in for a shock and I'm glad of it.
- It seems like Elyas might seek the Tinkers out for human interaction now and again, seemingly grudgingly.
- I do love all the bright, clashing colors the Tuatha'an embrace...but I wonder why they chose them.
- Aram is a smooth talker, I see. And has Egwene's attention!
- I'm thinking that this exchange with Aram is in part where the justification for making more of Perrin's "feelings" for Egwene than is written came from for the show.
- I actually really like the Way of the Leaf. It's an admirable philosophy. But since violence is closer to the surface for so many, it's improbable that it (or its real-world counterparts) could take hold en masse, I think.
- Well, I already like the Aiel just from the little they're talked about here.
- Trying to pick apart what the Aiel woman said: Leafblighter means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One. He means to slay the Great Serpent. Warn the People, Lost One. Sightburner comes. Tell them to stand ready for He Who Comes With the Dawn. The Dark One means to destroy the Eye of the World and the "Great Serpent." Could that mean the Dragon or time itself...or both? She wanted the Seeker to warn the People. Her own, or everyone? Is He Who Comes With the Dawn the Dragon Reborn, in which case she wants her people to know that they need to stand with the Dragon Reborn when he appears? So many answers to look forward to!
- ...Huh. Was Elyas of the Aiel himself once? Is that what he kept Raen from saying?
- Oh dear. Egwene is crying and Perrin is flummoxed. Is she feeling guilty for liking Aram when she has feelings for Rand, perhaps?
- So Perrin thinks Rand has an easy way with girls and thinks nothing of his own abilities...and Rand thinks the exact same thing about Perrin. Dorks
- Perrin might be uncomfortable dreaming of wolves, but they're keeping Ba'alzamon out of his dreams. That's got to be vastly more preferable.

 

[Toral Delvar]

So Perrin thinks Rand has an easy way with girls and thinks nothing of his own abilities...and Rand thinks the exact same thing about Perrin. Dorks

It's amusing at first, but I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, we get a lot of this from both of them, and even occasionally from Mat, though he is more aware of how easily he charms women, so doesn't think "Rand/Perrin would know what to to, they are so good with girls" anywhere near as much as they do

Nynaeve's anger towards Moiraine was ridiculous, petty and unjustified - she is usually so much better than that, but I guess something about Moiraine rubs her the wrong way. She still has the same problems as we would see from many people who are raised their whole lives being told they are special, and from a very young age (not sure how old she was when the previous Wisdom died, but I doubt Nynaeve was much older than 21) has been in a position of power, where she has to defend herself and stamp out any dissent in case people view that as a reason not to take her seriously.
That said, from the parts of the show I saw, show Nynaeve was just as petty towards Moiraine at first. Maybe she grew out of it quicker

We talked about Mat going after treasure in the spoiler re-read and were not entirely in agreement. Of course, if he had sense, he wouldn't have wandered about in a city even trollocs were scared of, but if Moiraine had sense and didn't just expect people to do as she said without question (something she already knows isn't happening with these boys), she would have said "don't go anywhere, there are things in Shadar Logoth that are very dangerous", but she hoards secrets like a dragon hoards gold or a billionaire hoards money.

 

[Viktara Fen]

I am enjoying reading your initial impressions and experiences as you make your way through the book for the first time!

Particularly with Shadar Logoth, I feel like you, as a fellow D&D player, will understand what I mean when I say that if TEotW were a campaign, I'm convinced that Mat would 100% be That Player. "Don't do the thing," says the Very Important NPC, "and don't touch anything, either." And what does That Player immediately do? Any of us who've been playing any length of time know the answer. :rofl

That said, in my reread of this section and my spouse's initial read, we both remarked that the Shadar Logoth sequence, especially with Mordeth, felt so much like a D&D style encounter. Numerous places in TEotW do, but this one especially. I know RJ remarked in the foreword to the 3.x-era WoT RPG that he used to DM for his son and his son's friends, and every once in a while I wonder if that DM instinct doesn't show up on the page.

As for how angry and unlikable Nynaeve is at this point in the story, her vitriol isn't really excusable, IMO, but I feel like it might be explained somewhat by how thoroughly her life has been thrown into chaos and how she went from having a lot of authority and control (even if she was insecure about it, feared the criticism of her elders, and made up for that by being rude or excessively aggressive) to having very little control or authority and being adrift in an unfamiliar world. She's now no longer important, in charge, or special, and the world's a lot bigger and less friendly or tolerant than it seemed. I suspect that's why she's doubling down on the tactics she used to employ to get her way at home, and why she's so desperate to salvage a little control (or at least the illusion of it) by attacking a scapegoat (Moiraine) and being so quick to hide her fear and uncertainty behind those angry, braid-yanking tirades.

 

[Laurien Achaur]

That said, from the parts of the show I saw, show Nynaeve was just as petty towards Moiraine at first. Maybe she grew out of it quicker

Oh yes, I definitely got that pettiness toward Moiraine in the show, too. She might've grown out of it quicker, true (especially since everyone was aged up a bit), but again, I think it was more that there were only 8 episodes and the growth out of it pretty much had to be rushed.

I am enjoying reading your initial impressions and experiences as you make your way through the book for the first time!

Particularly with Shadar Logoth, I feel like you, as a fellow D&D player, will understand what I mean when I say that if TEotW were a campaign, I'm convinced that Mat would 100% be That Player. "Don't do the thing," says the Very Important NPC, "and don't touch anything, either." And what does That Player immediately do? Any of us who've been playing any length of time know the answer. :rofl

That said, in my reread of this section and my spouse's initial read, we both remarked that the Shadar Logoth sequence, especially with Mordeth, felt so much like a D&D style encounter. Numerous places in TEotW do, but this one especially. I know RJ remarked in the foreword to the 3.x-era WoT RPG that he used to DM for his son and his son's friends, and every once in a while I wonder if that DM instinct doesn't show up on the page.

As for how angry and unlikable Nynaeve is at this point in the story, her vitriol isn't really excusable, IMO, but I feel like it might be explained somewhat by how thoroughly her life has been thrown into chaos and how she went from having a lot of authority and control (even if she was insecure about it, feared the criticism of her elders, and made up for that by being rude or excessively aggressive) to having very little control or authority and being adrift in an unfamiliar world. She's now no longer important, in charge, or special, and the world's a lot bigger and less friendly or tolerant than it seemed. I suspect that's why she's doubling down on the tactics she used to employ to get her way at home, and why she's so desperate to salvage a little control (or at least the illusion of it) by attacking a scapegoat (Moiraine) and being so quick to hide her fear and uncertainty behind those angry, braid-yanking tirades.

Oh geez. Mat would absolutely be That Player. :rofl I think he would also give anyone of station in the game a hard time and probably end up in jail frequently because of it.

I like how you put what may be going on with Nynaeve, and I agree. It's not excusable...but defense mechanisms sometimes don't involve a lot of sense.

 

[Toral Delvar]

- Oh dear. Egwene is crying and Perrin is flummoxed. Is she feeling guilty for liking Aram when she has feelings for Rand, perhaps?

Partially I think. But she probably also feels a little guilty about having fun. While she wasn't a Wisdom who was expected to care for her people all the time, she did just lose her friends a couple of days before, and now she is dancing, partying and totally forgetting them.

 

[Viktara Fen]

Partially I think. But she probably also feels a little guilty about having fun. While she wasn't a Wisdom who was expected to care for her people all the time, she did just lose her friends a couple of days before, and now she is dancing, partying and totally forgetting them.

I agree with Toral Gaidin's assessment of Egwene here, and I'll add the following thoughts FWIW:

Egwene early in TEotW strikes me as fairly immature...or perhaps "innocent" is a better description? Neither seems to fit perfectly, but that's kind of the idea. She starts out acting like a kid who has never really had to worry about much of anything truly bad, and for whom everything has largely turned out as she wanted. She also seems to be fairly confident, but in the way that kids are when they're ignorant of the reality of a situation. As the story progresses, and as the "adventure" proves more and more deadly and awful the longer things go on, she begins to take on a more mature perspective. She deals with loss and with failure, as well as with doubts and creeping uncertainty.

The Tuatha'an camp sequence struck me as the first time that Egwene and Perrin have really had any respite since Winternight, and in her dancing and partyting and spending time with Aram, I see her as falling back on what was fun for her in the past. She's retreating back to what used to be fulfilling, comforting, or enjoyable. But reality keeps creeping back in, and she can't quite get away from it, no matter how much she tries.

I'd need to skim back over that chapter in particular, but it kind of reminds me of times in my own life when I've tried to cling to something that I'd outgrown and that just didn't work anymore. I could forget it for a while, but reality always seeped back in, eroding the illusion. I suspect Egwene is getting a taste of that here, perhaps.

 

[Laurien Achaur]

Partially I think. But she probably also feels a little guilty about having fun. While she wasn't a Wisdom who was expected to care for her people all the time, she did just lose her friends a couple of days before, and now she is dancing, partying and totally forgetting them.

I agree with Toral Gaidin's assessment of Egwene here, and I'll add the following thoughts FWIW:

Egwene early in TEotW strikes me as fairly immature...or perhaps "innocent" is a better description? Neither seems to fit perfectly, but that's kind of the idea. She starts out acting like a kid who has never really had to worry about much of anything truly bad, and for whom everything has largely turned out as she wanted. She also seems to be fairly confident, but in the way that kids are when they're ignorant of the reality of a situation. As the story progresses, and as the "adventure" proves more and more deadly and awful the longer things go on, she begins to take on a more mature perspective. She deals with loss and with failure, as well as with doubts and creeping uncertainty.

The Tuatha'an camp sequence struck me as the first time that Egwene and Perrin have really had any respite since Winternight, and in her dancing and partyting and spending time with Aram, I see her as falling back on what was fun for her in the past. She's retreating back to what used to be fulfilling, comforting, or enjoyable. But reality keeps creeping back in, and she can't quite get away from it, no matter how much she tries.

I'd need to skim back over that chapter in particular, but it kind of reminds me of times in my own life when I've tried to cling to something that I'd outgrown and that just didn't work anymore. I could forget it for a while, but reality always seeped back in, eroding the illusion. I suspect Egwene is getting a taste of that here, perhaps.

 

[Laurien Achaur]

I agree with both of you. Innocent or perhaps idealistic is how Egwene comes off, and I think a lot of her interactions with Moiraine show this. She has a much brighter view of Aes Sedai than the boys, but it swings too much in the opposite direction from them to be realistic.

 

[Dro Beloseren]

Awww I'm glad you're all enjoying this! I'm certainly enjoying off-loading my thoughts here.

It's super cool to get such a deep view into the perspective of a reader who is new to the series

 

[Satara al'Caelahn]

It's super cool to get such a deep view into the perspective of a reader who is new to the series

Echoing this sentiment.

For those of us who had our first read A While ago, we can't go back and read it for the first time again, but this comes close. We're all living vicariously through you right now, Laurien.

 

[Toral Delvar]

For those of us who had our first read A While ago, we can't go back and read it for the first time again, but this comes close. We're all living vicariously through you right now, Laurien.

I'm not sure when I started reading. I think it was 90-91, but it might have been a couple of years later. I've read EotW probably over 20 times and I still pick upon things I hadn't noticed previously

 

[Viktara Fen]

I agree with the others! Your enthusiasm and insights as you discover things for the first time are a joy to read, and I look forward to following along for as long as you desire to keep posting them.

 

[Laurien Achaur]

Chapter 26: Whitebridge

- I love the description of the White Bridge. What it was originally part of must have been breathtaking.
- I don't know why, but the sudden appearance of the merchants is jarring. The contrast between them and the sailors and dockhands is pronounced, and I'm thinking that's by design.
- Good riddance to Gelb. But I bet he's going to cause more trouble for them. Or if not for Thom and the boys, for Captain Domon.
- Wow. That's quite the tempting offer Domon makes Thom. I don't blame him for hesitating.
- Putting a wall down the middle of the inn is an interesting way to keep fights from happening!
- I'm definitely eager to get to the second book now that Bartrim and Thom have talked about the Hunt for the Horn.
- Is the crazy beggar Padan Fain again?
- Good on Rand for sticking to the plan of going to Tar Valon despite Thom's reasoning about Illian.
- That dagger is definitely getting worrying now.
- Well, there goes any welcome Domon might have had in Whitebridge, thanks to Gelb.
- Definitely wondering what exactly happened with the Aes Sedai and Thom's nephew.
- Noooo, Thom! :cry
- What was that blue flash just before Rand and Mat started running, I wonder?

Chapter 27: Shelter From the Storm

- On the one hand, I do admire the Tuatha'an for the Way of the Leaf and joy with which they live. On the other...I don't know that wandering at a leisurely pace with no definite destination would suit me any better than it suits Perrin.
- Trust Elyas' gut, Perrin!
- Bellydancing! That's what it seems closest to, anyway. Poor Perrin! Especially since they seem to be doing it mostly to tease him. All the blushing!
- Somehow I'm not surprised that they rope Egwene into learning it, too.
- Oh wow. The wolves caught Perrin's dream. That's a pretty profound connection.
- Come on, Perrin. Aren't the wolves vastly more preferable to Ba'alzamon?

 

[Toral Delvar]

I never really understood Perrin’s objections to the wolves. Sure, wolves occasionally take sheep, but in general, they avoid people unless really hungry. Maybe he thinks he’ll end up like Elias if he accepts them/it

 

[Viktara Fen]

The White Bridge sort of made me think of the Moonbridge located in Silverymoon in the Forgotten Realms D&D setting. Granted, the Moonbridge was simply made of magical force and was invisible by day and silvery and translucent by night, and it was well known who had made it and how, but I imagine it would be similarly impressive to a newcomer from the countryside. That said, I bet most Third Age people in the Wheel of Time would be super uneasy about an invisible bridge, Age of Legends or not.

The matter of the blue flash is a very good question! I have my thoughts, but I'd love to hear yours!

As for Perrin's aversion to the wolves, I've often wondered whether it has to do with that ingrained folk belief among some people in the setting that wolves serve the Shadow. Perrin has evidence right in front of him that they don't, but even in the face of that kind of proof, it's hard to uproot beliefs you're raised with. That and his connection to the wolves is mysterious, frightening, and un-asked-for. It's just sort of thrust upon him, much like this whole "adventure" has been, and I suspect he's frightened and resentful of it.

Also, just as Egwene's been trying to fall back on past comforts to cope with everything, I wonder if Perrin might be attempting to cope through denial. The connection's there, Elyas and the wolves have confirmed it, and it's right in front of him, but it's one more thing he doesn't want, one more thing that changes his world forever and proves he can't ever quite go back to the way things were, so he fights it.

 

[Laurien Achaur]

Chapter 28: Footprints in Air

- Strange that Nynaeve is so concerned with how Moiraine and Lan see her at this point. Or maybe it's just Lan...
- It also frustrating to see that Nynaeve regards what she can do as tainted now just because she knows it's the One Power, which she regards as "filthy." She would have nothing to do with it. Um...too late, girly. Best come to grips with it!
- Moiraine tells Nynaeve, "You can do nothing with the One Power when emotion rules your mind," and show-watcher me is just sitting here biting my tongue
- Oooo, Lan's getting under her skin and he's not even doing anything. Which is why he's getting under her skin
- Walking on the White Bridge, I'd probably be having the same reaction as Nynaeve just from looking at it. And because I wouldn't be able to fathom treading on something that beautiful if it weren't for the fact that everyone else is doing it, too.
- Moiraine's interactions with the Whitebridge folk are interesting. Is she leaning into the One Power to get them to perceive sympathy and open up to her, or is her sympathy truly genuine? Perhaps it's both. There's no reason to believe that she isn't being genuine, but the wording of this passage implies that there's more going on.
- Well, thank goodness the Spray got away from the mob. Bloody Gelb...
- Much as I dislike Nynaeve's vitriol toward Moiraine, I do understand her frustration when it comes to asking after Egwene. There doesn't seem to be any reason why Moiraine should hold back her thoughts about Egwene from Nynaeve, unless it's a case of fighting fire with fire a bit (in which case she should know better).

 

[Laurien Achaur]

The matter of the blue flash is a very good question! I have my thoughts, but I'd love to hear yours!

As for Perrin's aversion to the wolves, I've often wondered whether it has to do with that ingrained folk belief among some people in the setting that wolves serve the Shadow. Perrin has evidence right in front of him that they don't, but even in the face of that kind of proof, it's hard to uproot beliefs you're raised with. That and his connection to the wolves is mysterious, frightening, and un-asked-for. It's just sort of thrust upon him, much like this whole "adventure" has been, and I suspect he's frightened and resentful of it.

Also, just as Egwene's been trying to fall back on past comforts to cope with everything, I wonder if Perrin might be attempting to cope through denial. The connection's there, Elyas and the wolves have confirmed it, and it's right in front of him, but it's one more thing he doesn't want, one more thing that changes his world forever and proves he can't ever quite go back to the way things were, so he fights it.

I honestly don't know. My guess is that it's something the Fade did; Thom was screaming after it happened, after all. But I definitely feel like I'm missing something. I'll be revisiting the chapter again soon, though so I'll see if anything new jumps out at me when I do!

And I do agree that Perrin is trying to cope through denial; it's a common thread with all the EF5. I just find it baffling that he still wants to fight against it when it protects him from Ba'alzamon, who is so much worse! But when you're overwhelmed with your circumstances, I suppose that can be more difficult to see.

 

[Viktara Fen]

And I do agree that Perrin is trying to cope through denial; it's a common thread with all the EF5. I just find it baffling that he still wants to fight against it when it protects him from Ba'alzamon, who is so much worse! But when you're overwhelmed with your circumstances, I suppose that can be more difficult to see.

Part of me wonder whether this has to do with the fact that if he acknowledges the Ba'alzamon situation, that means he also has to acknowledge that that big change has happened, and it's (counterintuitively enough) more comfortable and easier for him to just deny that any of it is a big deal, because that means he can still cling to the fantasy that maybe this will all just blow over soon, and he can go home, get back to work for Master Luhhan, and forget it all happened.