I'm sorry... One of the FIVE of you?!

[Aulrick Vendour]

I like what they did with the TV show. I understand some things need to be adjusted, and don't expect to see everything from the books in the show.

But what the hell is with this "five of you" business?
They knew exactly when the Dragon was born, Egwene and Nyneave aren't even the correct age!
And lets assume they aged Egwene a bit to be the same age as the boys - a HUGE part of the story is the three Taveren, the boys vs. the world!

What the heck have they done?!

 

[Maianel Istor]

Eh, it doesn't bother me. It just broadens the setting a bit to say that the Dragon wasn't necessarily reborn as a male channeler. They're profoundly unlikely to rewrite the story to the point of having Rand not actually be the Dragon Reborn, so to me, it's really just a way of signaling that reincarnation doesn't always run along gender lines (and when it doesn't, it isn't the Dark One using that as a punishment, which was always kinda ick.)

 

[Nadezhda al'Lanahrin]

I like that they're trying to keep it more of a mystery, because I knew from the start that Rand would the Dragon Reborn. Also, the title "Dragon Reborn" itself is pretty gender neutral.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

I like that they're trying to keep it more of a mystery, because I knew from the start that Rand would the Dragon Reborn. Also, the title "Dragon Reborn" itself is pretty gender neutral.

That's the thing - I never felt it was a mystery. I mean, we hear right at the start he was born in the snow and brought to the Two Rivers, so it never felt to me like Jordan intended it to be a mystery.
Also we kinda follow him at the beginning, which is also a giveaway.

 

[Maianel Istor]

That's the thing - I never felt it was a mystery. I mean, we hear right at the start he was born in the snow and brought to the Two Rivers, so it never felt to me like Jordan intended it to be a mystery.
Also we kinda follow him at the beginning, which is also a giveaway.

Right -- but that's how it was in the book. From the perspective of the show, and people who haven't read the books, they may not get that information right away, nor will Rand be used all the time as the viewpoint character. So for that audience, leaving it more of an open question for a while might work just fine.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Right -- but that's how it was in the book. From the perspective of the show, and people who haven't read the books, they may not get that information right away, nor will Rand be used all the time as the viewpoint character. So for that audience, leaving it more of an open question for a while might work just fine.

That would require to change the entire first part of the show to not follow the first 25% of the Eye of the World.

 

[Aratouial Delafeld]

I love how we're all taking the word of a Cairhienen Aes Sedai at face value

Just because that's the text of what she says, it doesn't mean we know why she said it. Maybe she's convincing all five of them to get out of the TR because she doesn't want to leave two powerful channelers behind. Maybe she thinks Nynaeve and Egwene can be helpful in tying strings to whoever the DR is.

 

[Tazren Talamar]

Well, a lot of people have speculated that they might make Egwene a ta'veren since she is one in all but name anyway.

Also, Moiraine could say "it's one of the five of you" to any group of five people, as long as Rand, Mat and Perrin are included and it would be perfectly true. I think this is just a bit of misdirection for the audience who haven't read the books, to make it a mystery.

 

[Maianel Istor]

That would require to change the entire first part of the show to not follow the first 25% of the Eye of the World.

Why should it? Will Trollocs not attack Emond's Field because Moiraine's uncertainty includes Egwene and Nynaeve? (Assuming, as others have pointed out, that they're among the five she's referring to -- we don't actually know.) Will the core cast not flee the Two Rivers? Will Rand not start to channel, etc.? We'll undoubtedly see changes in the plot, but they'll be driven by the need to condense literal millions of words of book into a few seasons of TV, not by small alterations to what Moiraine knows and doesn't know, and when she knows it.

And we can already tell from the trailer that the viewpoint structure will be different -- but that was also pretty much always going to be true, because TV handles viewpoint differently. Regardless of who Moiraine thinks could be the Dragon Reborn, it's a given that we'll get scenes Rand isn't present for.

Basically, I don't see this doing any great violence to the story. It's still going to have the same general shape.

 

[Morgana Arakos]

I've really liked Brandon Sanderson's framing for thinking about the show: it's not a 1:1 replica of the books, but rather a new turning of the wheel.

I think the "five of you" language is very likely a red herring, and that it will quickly become apparent that the Dragon Reborn is Rand. But, I would also be totally okay with this version of the story having a prophecy that was more vague, that doesn't specify a gender. That would throw Egwene into the mix, if she was born around the same time.

I think in the end the mythos of the show will align more closely to the books than it seems right now, and that there isn't much to worry about. I think making the chosen one mystery more open at the beginning, and not limited to the men at the outset, is a good inclusive move that makes the story feel more appealing to non-male viewers. I think the spirit of the story will still be captured even if Moiraine doesn't know the Dragon is a man on Day 1.

More than anything, I'm really interested to see how they pull it off! I just hope whatever they choose is cohesive, even if it is a slight change.

 

[Maianel Istor]

I just hope whatever the choose is cohesive, even if it is a slight change.

This! I'm bugged less by changes than by changes which don't take into account the effects they'll have elsewhere in the story. If the strands get woven into a differently-patterned but solid fabric, I'm generally fine with it. (Case in point: I was reading some reviews of various Dune adaptations earlier today, and one of them rightly called into question where the heck the Fremen got the thousands of "weirding modules" that Lynch invented for his film. The modules themselves are a cool idea, but nobody thought through how the army was supposed to get equipped with them.)

 

[Morgana Arakos]

I love how we're all taking the word of a Cairhienen Aes Sedai at face value

Just because that's the text of what she says, it doesn't mean we know why she said it. Maybe she's convincing all five of them to get out of the TR because she doesn't want to leave two powerful channelers behind. Maybe she thinks Nynaeve and Egwene can be helpful in tying strings to whoever the DR is.

Also +1 to this! Everything Moiraine said would pass the Aes Sedai honesty test in the books.

 

[Aulrick Vendour]

Why should it? Will Trollocs not attack Emond's Field because Moiraine's uncertainty includes Egwene and Nynaeve? (Assuming, as others have pointed out, that they're among the five she's referring to -- we don't actually know.) Will the core cast not flee the Two Rivers? Will Rand not start to channel, etc.? We'll undoubtedly see changes in the plot, but they'll be driven by the need to condense literal millions of words of book into a few seasons of TV, not by small alterations to what Moiraine knows and doesn't know, and when she knows it.

And we can already tell from the trailer that the viewpoint structure will be different -- but that was also pretty much always going to be true, because TV handles viewpoint differently. Regardless of who Moiraine thinks could be the Dragon Reborn, it's a given that we'll get scenes Rand isn't present for.

Basically, I don't see this doing any great violence to the story. It's still going to have the same general shape.

I was more referring to the fact that the whole beginning follows Rand and his father.
To make it more vague, they’ll need to either cut the whole part of Tam’s injury/delusions, give more focus on what happens at Two Rivers rather than the Al’Thor farm, etc.

To me, that is a huge change from the author’s intention.

 

[Aratouial Delafeld]

To me, that is a huge change from the author’s intention.

yeah sure probably but I'd argue the author's intention there was to set up the primary emotional conflict in Rand's interior dialogue ... none of which can be adapted to film in a show about an ensemble cast. You can do it if you make a show like Mr. Robot but I don't want Mr. Dragon, I want a show "about them all," as RJ said at the end of the series.

RJ didn't totally know where he was going in the first book. He had good ideas, he had vision, he was able to build in some foreshadowing, but lots of stuff got changed/shifted/altered as the books progressed. He was also incredibly bad at show vs. tell. The show must condense 15 books and all the accompanying lore into 8 seasons, 10 at most. That means we're not going to get a bunch of quiet interior slow burn with every single character.

 

[Maianel Istor]

I was more referring to the fact that the whole beginning follows Rand and his father.
To make it more vague, they’ll need to either cut the whole part of Tam’s injury/delusions, give more focus on what happens at Two Rivers rather than the Al’Thor farm, etc.

To me, that is a huge change from the author’s intention.

Oof. I sincerely respect that you feel that way . . . but if so, I fear you're doomed to be disappointed and/or furious at the TV show, because that's likely to be the least of the changes they introduce.

For me, an adaptation ought to respect the author's intention on a macro level, not a micro one. Of course there's lots of wiggle room around deciding what the "core" of that intention is -- but to be a good show (or film or comic book or whatever), they usually have to do things differently. Which is why I really like Brandon's framing about this being a different turn of the Wheel, rather than the books pasted directly onto the screen. I feel like that's a great, in-world way of characterizing the goal here, which is to tell the story we know in a familiar-but-different way.

 

[Nebka Galyn]

Books don't usually translate well into movie, tv, whatever... Especially books that favor a lot of minute detail.
I'm just excited that new people will get exposure to a book series that I love.

I have hopes that it will be a decent portrayal of a familiar story. But a lot of the scenes will be cut, or morphed to make the underlying story come alive on the screen....

 

[Morgana Arakos]

I was more referring to the fact that the whole beginning follows Rand and his father.
To make it more vague, they’ll need to either cut the whole part of Tam’s injury/delusions, give more focus on what happens at Two Rivers rather than the Al’Thor farm, etc.

To me, that is a huge change from the author’s intention.

This is one of the things I'm most excited about for the show! In the books, so much happens off camera that we don't get to witness directly. But, the medium of TV will let us see things like Winter's Night, not just their aftermath. I think that will be one of the most fun parts of watching it, for me.

 

[Atarah al'Norahn]

I think the biggest thing for me is that so much of the legend of the Dragon is tied up in the fear of saidin, and the fact that the Dragon is destined to go insane. If they can manage to intimate that the level of fear would be the same with a Dragon who channels saidar instead, then I'm all for changes to the lore. I just care that it makes sense.

 

[Ilverin Matriam]

I'm just excited that new people will get exposure to a book series that I love.

I am both excited by this and a bit scared I am excited because I know some people will like it and even read the books, but I am scared, because some people will probably hate it and trash it and I really hate mean comments about WoT

 

[Leala ni al'Dareis t'al'Caleum]

yeah sure probably but I'd argue the author's intention there was to set up the primary emotional conflict in Rand's interior dialogue ... none of which can be adapted to film in a show about an ensemble cast. You can do it if you make a show like Mr. Robot but I don't want Mr. Dragon, I want a show "about them all," as RJ said at the end of the series.

RJ didn't totally know where he was going in the first book. He had good ideas, he had vision, he was able to build in some foreshadowing, but lots of stuff got changed/shifted/altered as the books progressed. He was also incredibly bad at show vs. tell. The show must condense 15 books and all the accompanying lore into 8 seasons, 10 at most. That means we're not going to get a bunch of quiet interior slow burn with every single character.

+1

Also, Rafe has confirmed that he's aged up the Emond's Field group, so makes sense to me. Also, it makes my heart happy to see the girls' power and contributions acknowledged in this way.