A crazy theory about Rand and Moridin:

Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
452
Age
44
Location
Taylorsville, UT
I was listening to the audio of The Great Hunt today, and I something Ba'alzamon said to Rand made me wonder if the Wheel is so much of a circle that Ishamael/Moridin is the same person as the Dragon but a cycle ahead, twisted and tainted by evil to serve the Dark One. It's in Chapter 15 where Ba'alzamon is talking about how some people fight each other so long and know each other so well that when they strike at one another it's as if the vitcim guides the blow to his own body. Then the taunting about wanting Rand to see his face, almost as if he knows that Rand will recognize himself behind the mask. There's probably tons of evidence to dispute this, but it seemed like an interesting thought when I had it.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
6,888
Age
39
Location
Israel
Well I think he actually meant it as it sounded - you know your opponent so well, that when you strike you know WHERE to strike as if you were the opponent himself... It's really rather literal, as I see it.

It would seem strange to me if they are the same person, since each person has his own individual thread in the pattern... Which means as long as the thread is already in the pattern, it can't be reused and the person can't be born again. Isn't that the whole idea of the wheel?
 

Morrighan Daghdera

CordaMorri
Gaidin
Company Commander of Mahdi'in d'ma Dieb
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
8,102
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I agree with you, Aulrick. Quinlan, I think that he meant that their individual threads are so intertwined that they're almost inseparable by the Wheel. Perhaps the Wheel needs both of them to serve as counter balance to the other.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
6,888
Age
39
Location
Israel
Indeed. We know of at least two threads like that, though not enemies, and those are Brigitte and Cain. I think she even explained it once, their connection.
 

Satara al'Caelahn

Aes Sedai
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
8,585
Age
39
Location
Indiana
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
Discord
brattneyrose
I agree that they're probably not the same person, but after reading this I really want to know what's under Ishmael's mask...
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
6,888
Age
39
Location
Israel
We've already seen what's under the mask, if I remember correctly. A burned face. As I recall it kept healing more and more, 'till it was almost or completely healed in TDR and then Rand kills him.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
9,520
Location
Perth, Australia
Pronouns
  1. He - Him
He pulls it off later in that chapter


Ba'alzamon still stood there, and the great darkness still hung behind him, but it was as if all the rest had been illusion.
"Do you want to see my face?" It was a whisper.
Rand swallowed. "No."
"You should." A gloved hand went to the black mask.
"No!"
The mask came away. It was a man's face, horribly burned. Yet between the black-edged, red crevices crossing those features, the skin looked healthy and smooth. Dark eyes looked at Rand; cruel lips smiled with a flash of white teeth. "Look at me, Kinslayer, and see the hundredth part of your own fate." For a moment eyes and mouth became doorways into endless caverns of fire. "This is what the Power unchecked can do, even to me. But I heal, Lews Therin. I know the paths to greater power. It will burn you like a moth flying into a furnace."
"I will not touch it!" Rand felt the void around him, felt saidin. "I won't."
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
860
Location
Aalst, Belgium
I just want to know how the connection between Moridin and Rand will affect the Last Battle. We have seen some effects of the crossed balefire, but I suspect there's more to it than just blurry visions and dream visits.
 

Satara al'Caelahn

Aes Sedai
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
8,585
Age
39
Location
Indiana
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
Discord
brattneyrose
Aaah! I totally forgot about that part! I feel dumb now. :(

Anyway... :look: Yes, I'm curious to see how their connection will impact the last battle. Moridin acts like that connection is totally unfamiliar to him which also makes me curious.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
860
Location
Aalst, Belgium
It has never happened before in known history. It is something Moridin has no knowledge of, and he doesn't understand it completely.
I think this must be very frustrating for him, not knowing something. He is used to being very knowledgeable.
 

Satara al'Caelahn

Aes Sedai
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
8,585
Age
39
Location
Indiana
Pronouns
  1. They - Them
  2. She - Her
Discord
brattneyrose
I meant unfamiliar in the sense that I don't think Moridin knows what's going to happen with the connection between himself and Rand. I think he's more aware of possible repercussions than Rand is, but not fully aware of what the connection is or what kind of effects it will have. I remember reading a scene where Moridin flexed his hand (the hand that Rand lost) and seemed both frustrated and confused by it. Now I don't know if the confusion was due to him not knowing that Rand had lost his hand, or because he wasn't sure why he was feeling anything because of it.

I'm just speculating and making nonsense. Feel free to ignore me. :look:
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
6,888
Age
39
Location
Israel
I remember that too Satara. Though honestly, with the amount of Balefire used in the power wars before they realized what it does, I doubt it never happened before. It's possible it happened, but just wasn't recorded, or that the recording were lost in the wars. That's just speculation of course, and it doesn't really matter for the discussion. Just a thought of mine.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
9,520
Location
Perth, Australia
Pronouns
  1. He - Him
I remember that too Satara. Though honestly, with the amount of Balefire used in the power wars before they realized what it does, I doubt it never happened before. It's possible it happened, but just wasn't recorded, or that the recording were lost in the wars. That's just speculation of course, and it doesn't really matter for the discussion. Just a thought of mine.

Well that rather depends on whether is strictly an effect caused by crossing balefire streams, or if its caused by crossing One Power and True Power Balefire streams.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
9,520
Location
Perth, Australia
Pronouns
  1. He - Him
Yeah I've thought about the crossing the streams moment for a very long time since it happened.

Very interesting little incident with a lot of potential given balefire is essentially a tool which works directly on a thread in the pattern.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point this is gonna be a big factor in the end, can't wait to see how it plays out.
 

Kaldam Luciere

Watson Gaidin
Gaidin
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
3,842
Age
38
Location
Sydney, Australia
It seems clear to me that Elan Morin represents everything the Dragon could have been had fate been different. They were equals, and extraordinarily influential in the Age of Legends. He has become such a Nihilist that I've begun to see him not as the real enemy. He strikes me now as weary, weary of fighting, wanting the world to simply end.

I think the real final confrontation will be Moridin, Rand....and Demandred, the one who cannot let his vengeance go. Demandred is the real villain.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
860
Location
Aalst, Belgium
I disagree. Yes, Demandred is still full of hate towards the Dragon and he has been gathering an army, but I feel that he will be defeated in battle before the end.

It woud however be interesting to see how a battle between Rand, Moridin and Demandred would turn out.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
6,888
Age
39
Location
Israel
I must agree with Jell here. At most, Demandred will replace Moridin as Naeblis, but I doubt the final battle will be between the three of them.
My money is still on my theory of Fain being used somehow, which means IF a 3-way final confrontation will happen, it'll be Rand, Moridin and Fain.

I guess we'll find out soon! :P
 

Morrighan Daghdera

CordaMorri
Gaidin
Company Commander of Mahdi'in d'ma Dieb
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Messages
8,102
Pronouns
  1. She - Her
I'm with you, Aulrick. Rand alone cannot fight them all. That's why there are other ta'veren. I'd much rather see Mat face Demandred. But I'd also like to see Fain take out Shaidar Haran.
 
Top